Season 2 (most recent first)
Ty & Stanislav
STANISLAV: Oh my god, who is this woman?
TY: Oh my god, who is this guy?
STANISLAV: Like, I just tried to enjoy it every minute. And not get too overwhelmed by feelings.
TY: Oh, universe, this is what I want!
MARIA: Welcome to Equal Parts, a series of true love stories, told by the couples themselves. In this season finale, we head to a party in Thailand, where both members of our couple found themselves unexpectedly alone, but blissful in this beautiful setting. Just to warn you, there are a few swears in this episode.
TY: Hi my name is Ty. I am 30. I'm a Londoner.
STANISLAV: I'm Stanislav. I come from Munich, Germany.
TY: I'm currently full time mumming I guess. But before I had a baby earlier this year, I did a whole bunch of different stuff in the wellness world. So I read tarot, I do movement meditation events...
STANISLA: I’m a photographer, slash barkeeper, slash barista, like, mainly photographer, but, you know, sometimes you have to earn some money somewhere else, especially in the beginnings!
TY: We've been together for two and a half years officially, but we met nearly three years ago. And there was kind of nobody even remotely in my life from the moment I met him. So, and it just kind of worked out that way.
STANISLAV: Ty, my, my lovely jungle princess, she's just like, the most chilled and like understanding person that I ever met. And I think this was always the most important for me, anyway, in a partner. I don't mind what they do and how they do as long as they like, have an understanding what, that there’s another person with other needs, or like other things that they want to do. So I really appreciate that.
TY: A few months before I met him, I'd like shaved my hair and just been like, ok, I'm not swearing off men, but I suppose like, just raising my bar. I kind of was like, great, no more nonsense, you know, I've had loads of lovely sex adventures all over the world [laughs], now I'm ready to just hold - as my mum says like - hold and receive, I'm just gonna hold and receive, and see what comes forward. So that's kind of where I was at when I met him. But also at the same time, I was on a family holiday, I hadn't even taken any condoms, because I was like, I’m on a family holiday!You know, this is not this is not about guys, this is not about men. So that's where I was like in those two places, at the same time.
STANISLAV: I was quite in a place of new beginnings. My work, they ran out of money. And I always wanted to travel, I wanted to go away for longer than just like, you know, the past two weeks, or the odd holiday. At that time, like my dad died, sadly, as well. But it's ok, it wasn't like oh, suddenly, but it's just like came altogether, and he left me also some money. So I decided with my other best friend who was still like living in Munich to visit my Thailand friend. And just to see how it is how he lives. And maybe I had a talk before with him, if I want to, like get into the hostel and maybe open a coffee shop or something like that.
It was just great. Like, really the first time I went like far away. Climate, people, holiday island - it’s just like, where I want to be!
TY: It was just after New Year. And it was a couple of days after.... I'd been on holiday with my family for two weeks, and then they'd left and I had a few days on my own. And I'd been at a kambo ceremony, kambo’s this like frog poison medicine, it sounds really gnarly, but they kind of made these little burns on your arm, and they put this frog poison on your arm. It's kind of this medicine that they use in the Amazon. So I'd been at a ceremony earlier that day, doing that. And as you can imagine, it's pretty intense. So like, by the afternoon, I was ready to just chill and be in my own space. And I had this little bungalow right on the beach. And I just went back there. And that evening was a party at my favourite place to dance to - this was all like in Thailand, happening by the way! So I was like, ok, I really want to go, this is my last chance to dance before I go home. But I'm also really tired, I want to just honour where I'm at. So I'm just gonna let myself go to sleep. And if I wake up and go to the party, then great. And if I don't, then it wasn't meant to be.
Went to sleep, and then woke up in the middle of the night, it was pitch black and I was pretty tired. I was like, oh I think I'll just go back to sleep, let me just see what the time is…. looked at my phone, and it was 3:33 and when I see like triple or quadruple digits I always think like oh my god, yes, I'm in the matrix, my angel’s with me [laughs]. There was just something about this 333 that I was, it just made me like sit bolt upright in bed and I was like oh, this this really a sign I've got to go - something good is gonna happen to me tonight, if I go to this party.
STANISLAV: It was kind of our last party. And this party was quite promising because you had to like go on the boats go to the next bay and quite another feeling than where the other parties just like with a motorbike or like taxi.
So we set like over to the, to the other bay, with the boat, and I left my phone at home and you know like first time really on a tropical island and over water and party and I just thought like I leave it better at home before I lose it. But we arrived quite early in the party and was a great party. I loved it. Sadly my one friend from Munich. He had a bit of a bad time just like alcohol and you know, he didn't have a great time. And my other friend, he is more like the party talker? So he was just sitting with his girlfriend on the on the side and was just like chatting and i was just dancing the whole night.
TY: Yeah, Eden Bar, the party goes kind of from the night all the way through to the daytime so you can go there at 333 in the morning and the party will still be in full swing. Because I've been to this place many times, I know a lot of people there, so I thought yeah I'll just go on my own because there'll be people that I know, but actually there was nobody there that I knew so I just thought ok most people usually turn up about like seven or eight for a morning dance, so I just - I think by the time i got there it was about 4:30 so I was like I'll just dance on my own for a bit and see how it goes. So I was yeah, just kind of dancing on my own just like waiting for the sun to come up really.
STANISLAV: My friend didn't feel very well so they said like they leave now, but I was like ‘nah I'm not done yet’ like last party, I know how to get home, like ‘you got off, I stay here’.
TY: Oh god, I can still remember - like still makes me smile so much - I just saw, walking across the dance floor, i just saw Stanny, like you know we're in the tropical islands, so he was just like topless, he had his sort of thailand trousers on, and his little kind of bum bag and I was just like oh my god, and I literally remember the thought went through my head like, ‘oh my god there goes my dream man’.
And I was just like I have to, I have to dance with him, I have to you know like, I have to engage with him in some way like two days before the end of my holiday! So I kind of - I think I was at the bar, I was waiting for a drink so I just kind of saw him - like a like a wild animal like through the trees, and then he was gone, and then I was looking around for him, I couldn’t see him anywhere, so I just had to kind of forget about it a little bit and then maybe like half an hour later when I was dancing I turned around. and he was dancing just behind me, on like the little elevated bit, so then I was kind of doing all my, you know, throwing out all my best moves in the hopes that he would notice me, and then eventually I went and like stood next to him.
STANISLAV: Yeah all of a sudden like this [sighs] gorgeous like woman was standing right next to me and moving like, I never saw like someone moving like this before, you know Germany is quite like, very like ‘hard’ in a way of movement and then just like this yeah, jungle princess, I just yeah immediately in a way like fell in love with her movement was just like wow!
TY: He smiled at me and I smiled back at him
STANISLAV: Normally I'm very bad at flirting, so just like hey you have to say something.
TY: He's like ‘oh yeah you're a good dancer’
STANISLAV: ‘Oh yeah I love your, the way you dance’
TY: Or ‘I like your dancing’, I was like, ‘oh thanks, I like your face!
STANISLAV: ‘I like your face’ it was like uh, uh…
TY: [laughing] and he just looked so shocked! I was like oh shit, he’s probably got a girlfriend like but it's fine, it's fine, I've said it you know!
Then he's like ‘do you want a cigarette’ I was like ‘oh no thanks’ because I don't smoke, and then he's like ‘ok, do you want a lollipop?’, and it's so funny because when I go to berlin with my girlfriends like I will just - because I don't smoke, I just stash my little bum bag full of lollipops, so I can just like have something nice to suck on on the dance floor, just like dancing away to the techno. So I was just like this beautiful man has just offered me a lollipop, like in my favourite place to dance in the whole world, Ii was like what the hell, so Ii took my lollipop, I was really happy with that.
STANISLAV: Uh, next question like ‘oh where are you from’, ‘I'm from Germany, and then she’s like -
TOGETHER: ich mag dein gesicht
STANISLAV: Just like ‘I like your face’ in German
TY: Then he looks even more surprised! That I spoke german I guess!
STANISLAV: My face just dropped just like, oh shit!
TY: But then i was just there dancing with my lollipop, like wow, I love berlin, I love just just the whole german vibe in general so not only is this man like tall and beautiful, and offered me a lollipop, and he's dancing, but he's also german! I was like this can't be real, this can't really be happening.
STANISLAV: Then we're just like chatting but not really like deeply, just a bit of chat and more dancing and just looking at each other.
TY: Ooh this is really nice [laughs]. Like dancing closer, dancing closer, I was like oh yeah I'm gonna get a kiss! And then we had a nice kiss.
STANISLAV: I just remember this kiss, it was just like [exhales] like I never kissed that juicy lips before and like so soft!
TY: He was just like ‘wowwwww your lips are so soft!’ I was like ‘oh thank you!’.
And yeah I guess because we met quite late in the night, by this time like the sun was coming up so there's this huge - Eden Bar’s kind of built onto the rocks, so we went down onto the rocks and we like dancing and watching the sunrise over the ocean, it was like super dreamy and I was looking at him trying to work out how old is he, is he the same age as me? I think we're about the same age, I was like oh please let him not be like 21 or something!
STANISLAV: The music stopped and we were like, oh, ok, must be over, like oh shit this is now over like, what is - yeah yeah I would love to hang out with you but, I can't be like so… I didn't want to look like too greedy? Too like ‘yeah yeah yeah I love you yeah!’ [laughs] you know when you just fancy someone from the first minute and you just be like, oh, cool person! Then she just asked whatever I do the rest of the day, and I really didn't have plans because I also would leave in three days after that.
TY: So I was just like, ‘oh, do you just want to like, hang out with me today?’, and he was so nonchalant. He was like, ‘yeah, maybe’ I was like, ‘ok, cool!’.
STANISLAV: Why not? Like, just like, yeah, I think so I can stay. Also like, I didn't have a phone and my friends were like, on the other side of the island, and I also was a bit like, ooh, can I, can I just stay without them like, sending like a search troop for me? But then I just had decided, uh last days, why not just go full and they will think something like that will be fine.
TY: He did end up staying like all day, we just kind of went from beach to beach, eating and chatting, eating and chatting. Like there was that kiss and then it was just like, we were just two people just hanging out and just talking, talking, talking all day long until it finally got to about like, yeah, nine or ten at night or whatever. I was like, ok, he's clearly not going back to his, his bungalow on the other side of the island. I was like, ‘do you want to stay?’ And he's like, ‘yeah’, so I was like, ‘great’! [laughs].
STANISLAV: ‘Oh, yeah, I would love to stay over, but first can you ask someone, can I get a phone? Can I get on Facebook? Can I send a message to my friends? Because another night would be like, getting strange. Luckily, she knew someone who had a phone that I could login into my Facebook, write them a message. I'm like, I'm fine. I'm coming tomorrow.
And I was a bit like, oof you know, I danced the whole night, like I sweated a lot. So I felt in a way very ugly, very, like stinky, very like, just done, you know, because I really was not like her when she came at, what, four o'clock or something? I was really there from like 11[pm] [laughs].
TY: And then the next day, was my last day before I had to catch my flight. And he was like, ‘do you want to come back and stay on the other side of the island with me before you go home? There's another party.’ So I was like, ‘yeah’, so I packed up all my stuff.
And then we had another day and night on the other side of the island. And yeah, that evening, we went to try and go to this party. But it turned out that it wasn't on. And so we just had this night where we just - we had taken like sarongs to lie on - and we just sat on the beach from about seven in the evening, it was completely deserted, because the party was cancelled, just talking again, just like talking all night long. And I remember watching the constellation of what is it, Orion kind of move across the whole, like it rose up above the horizon and move across the whole sky. And I just remember thinking like, oh, universe, this is what I want! You know, I know that it might not be this guy, because he lives in, you know, in another country, and I've met him on holiday, but this is what I want, please, like this is what, this is what I'm looking for. So if it's not this something like this, please.
STANISLAV: But I also remember, she brought like Star Wars analogies. And I was like, oh my god, who is this woman? Just like such a babe like next to me and just like casually bringing like Star Wars analogies and phrases of Yoda and like that kind of stuff. And I'm like, wow, who's this cool chick? Like, I just tried to enjoy it every minute. And not get too overwhelmed by feelings and being like too like, oh fuck, I love this woman, in a way. Just like tries to keep my my my feelings like, under control.
TY: I was just trying to like, hold it all really lightly in the hand, you know, and not getting too carried away, but also really thinking like, oh my god, who is this guy? And I was looking at him and just looking at his face, and I was like, it felt, it honestly felt like I was just remembering it. It was like I was looking at him, and just remembering his face. I was like, oh my god, who is this guy? This is crazy. But also I know that I'm on this beautiful paradise Island and lots of magical things happen to me when I'm here. But this feels really amazing, you know? And then the next day, yeah, I left. He wrote his number on a little piece of paper and gave it to me and was like ‘yeah stay in touch’, I was like ‘yeah I will!’. And then I came back to London.
STANISLAV: My friends were just like joking, like, ‘oh, you found the love of your life’. I just said like ‘no, no, no, that was it was just a holiday romance. Nothing, particular. I don't have time for that.’ But then I gave her my number and got this long message of like, how beautiful it was a time, and that brought her back and I was remember just like my last evening. The whole last night I was just sitting on the terrace. My friend was already sleeping inside the house, and I was just like staring onto the ocean. I was just like, wow, what happened the last three days? Like what was that? Never experience that kind of feelings or like before.
TY: I feel like if anything, there was something about the fact that we were both on holiday that is so different. Like when you meet someone, when you're away, it's so different to when you meet someone when you're back home, because when you're at home, like, you're thinking, ok, I'm gonna get off of work tomorrow. And you know, maybe that person is like chatting to a few other people or, you know, maybe it's like an app date. So you're, there's kind of like, all these other things. It's quite, it's quite rare to sort of meet someone in your home city in that kind of, like, magical way.
Whereas this was just like, I'm just here, you know, I was just, my family had gone, I was just there. And in this place in my life as well, where I was just like, this is me, like, unapologetically me. So you kind of end up having these conversations that are so much less guarded. And you just, you know, in a way, like you just don't, you just don't give as much of a fuck in a really good way! Because you're like, you know, I'm going home tomorrow. So let's just talk about everything, let’s talk about, you know, how many children do you want? And you know, what do you like in a relationship? What do you not like? You just talk about - just talk about everything. And it's not the same as - there's not this kind of like, ‘oh, don't get too into me, it's just a first date.’ You know what I mean? It doesn't feel like a date at all. It's not a date, you're actually just, you've just met someone and you're like, hey, let's just hang out until I fly home.
STANISLAV: Yeah, then we just kept in a way casual and in contact. But also my friend decided also to go to Thailand. And so we set us like a timer for three months, until we like have to get every, all the papers done. You know, you have to break up a lifetime.
TY: He was like, maybe I'll come to London before, like, on my way to back to Bangkok. I need to practice my English. And I genuinely thought he mainly wanted to practice his English and needed somewhere to stay, so I was kind of like ‘oh ok, yeah, sure. Yeah, like, you can come and stay with me!’.
STANISLAV: Because I still did not know how she felt about me, you know, like, so I just had to, like, disguise it a bit. Like, I want to see her again, but make it casual. Bring another reasons! [laughs].
Yeah, then she picked me up after work. And I wish like, from the first minute, I wanted to kiss her again. Then we were lying after dinner, like on the couch. And she started stroking my foot. And I'm like, ‘oh, yeah, she's still interested, like, not just like a friend!’, the whole, whole six days, I was just like , cloud seven. Cloud nine! Cloud nine is in English! In German it's cloud seven, that's why I'm always a bit like, seven, nine, oh now we’re in England so nine!
TY: Me of a few years ago would have been like, oh my god, I love you. Like, I'm just going to come to Thailand with you. But I had a long distance relationship a few years before this, that was my last one before this one. And it ended really badly. And so I felt much more kind of defended about the idea of falling for someone in that long distance setting where one of you or both of you are either like always on holiday and it being like quite a different dynamic. And so I was much more like defended of my heart, even though I was really open with him. The inner recesses of my heart, let's think I still was kind of like, I need to, I don't want to, I don't want to say I love you and then realise when I get to know you more that actually I don't, or vice versa, you know, that's awful.
STANISLAV: Yeah, I just like realised, I loved her, and I was in this moment of like, all my life, is new, everything is just like, why not just tell her and I mean, that's how I feel like, I can't not feel my feelings.
TY: At the end of the time when he was in London, he said, ‘I love you’.
STANISLAV; Just silence, you know, just like dead silence.
TY: And I was like, oh god, what am I gonna say? Because it didn't freak me out. Because I felt like I could feel those feelings too. But I don't want to say it too soon, because we've only spent like, you know, seven or eight days in each other's company, ever.
STANISLAV: And to tell someone that you love them, and it was dark, we were just like, kind of went to bed. So I couldn't see her face and just like dead silence, and it got like longer and longer and just like awkward, and just be like, ok, did I destroy everything?
TY: And then he was like, ‘ok, good night’. I was like, ‘no, no, no, no, you can't say good night!, you can’t say something like that., and then say good night!’
STANISLAV: ‘You can’t just like, leave me with that’. I'm like, ‘you’re leaving me with that!’ you know? [laughs]
TY: I was like, ‘no, no, thank you for saying that’. And, you know, ‘eyes can't lie’ is what I said. And that we'd just been spending so much time just gazing into each other's eyes, ‘eyes can't lie’. And yeah, specifically, I remember those as one time when we were just looking at each other. And I realised like, wow, there's nothing between his eyes and his soul. Like it's just open, you know, you know, so often you go on a date or you meet someone, you want to connect, and you want to feel like oh, this could be something really beautiful. But often people kind of have this like, there's something that holds them back from really opening up to that, and I felt like that when we would look at each other, there was nothing in between. There was nothing in the way.
STANISLAV: I knew that she like, has the same feelings, but she can't like voice it. And I was ok with that. Because, you know, I didn't say it, to hear it back. I said it because I felt it, and that that was the main reason why I wanted to say it.
Yeah, just left with this super nice warm feeling and super excitement of like a new country, but still, like, ooh wowl, I met the girl of my life in a way.
TY: Then I went to see him in Thailand, two months after that. So in May, which was when we finally became a couple, you know, and oh, my god, it was just like the dreamiest two weeks of my life. I'd been there for about three days. And we came back from this party. And, you know, even just when I arrived, he had already, like, you know, bought the weed and the fruit and the food and had just had made such an effort. And we got back from this party, and he like, brought me some food. And I was just like, thinking, oh yeah I love this about him, I love this, and everything about him, I was like [gasps] oh my gosh! Oh my god, I love him! There was like, this internal realisation of like, oh, my god, I do, I actually do!
And then we’d been at this party, obviously, Thailand, humidity, and he has long hair. So he was like, ‘oh, I really need to have a shower and wash my hair and dry it’ I was like ‘I can dry it for you if you like’. And he was like, ‘really, would you?’ I was like ‘yeah course!’. So he went and had his shower, and I was sitting there like, oh my god, I love him. I love him! This is great. And then he came out of the shower, and I was blow drying his hair. And just, he was just like, you know, when you see like a cat that's being brushed, the cat’s like ‘oh I’m loving this’... he was just sitting there like, and I was brushing and blow drying, so we weren't talking, and there was this golden kind of light just sort of descended into my heart. And I was just like, I'm fully in it. I’m fully, fully in it. And from that point onwards, like until now, I just completely have been.
And I didn't - I should have just said it then, I should have, because he'd already said it to me. Like I should have just said I love you. But I was like I'm gonna wait until he says it again!
STANISLAV: We went to the other side of the island where we met and had just like this magical, really magical days, every day, it was just perfect.
TY: We were paying this, doing these questions. There's like 36 questions to fall in love to. But they're really great questions as well, you could just do them even with a friend.
STANISLAV: In a way we knew all that what the other questions were about. We knew already because we were so chatty. And so it was not like, ‘whoa, whoa, really? That's how you?’ It was just like ‘oh, yeah, I can see that.’ And like ‘I could hear that already.’
TY: We got to the question that was like, if you died tomorrow, is there anything that you would regret having not said to someone? And I was like, you go first!
STANISLAV: In a way, I thought, there is none. Because I said that I loved her. So I was like ‘there is nothing’. But then it just felt like I have to say something.
TY: And he was like, ‘well, you know’ like, ‘you know how I feel’. And I was like, ‘what do you mean?’.
STANISLAV: ‘You exactly know what I want to say’, because I wanted to hear from her, like she did - she already heard it from me! But then she was like ‘you say first’ so just said more like how much I love her, rather than that I love her, because that she knew already!
TY: ‘Oh my god I love you too, I love you too, I love you too! [laughs]. And then yeah, that was it. Then we both said it, we went back to the same bar - Eden Bar - for a night, a party that night and we were just like, just so fully in our love.
And then when we got back to our bungalow, he was like, ‘ok, so yeah, I mean, I got to move to London’. And I was like, ‘I mean, yeah, I wasn't gonna pressure you because you've literally just arrived in Thailand, but when are you coming?’ and then three months after that, he moved to London.
STANISLAV: Yeah we just like knew, we want to be forever.
TY: And it’s just been great. There's not been a single moment where I've been like, oh shit, we've done anything too fast or too soon, even though by some people's standards, you know, we moved like, super, super quick lightning speed, but it's just felt so.. right. And sort of like, why wait? You know, why waste time? We're just gonna want to be together all the time. So let's just be together all the time!
MARIA: Equal Parts is produced by me, Maria Passingham. This is sadly the end of season 2, but I hope to return with a third season in the future. If you have a unique meeting story, I would love to hear it. Please get in touch via equalpartspodcast.co.uk. Ty and Stanislav, thank you so much for sharing your dreamy tale. And, thank you to all of the couples who took part this season.
Equal Parts features music from Audio Network, and artwork from a range of illustrators and designers. This week, Mar Bertran produced a vibrant piece that really captures the feel of Ty & Stanlislav’s meeting. Search for #EqualPartsPodcast on socials to find it in your feed, or go to EqualPartsPodcast.co.uk to see all of the artwork from Season 1 and Season 2. A big thank you to all of the artists who have created work for the podcast, And to Fran Marchesi who designed the Equal Parts logo. I also want to thank Sophie Shin, for her help behind the scenes. Thank you all.
And thank you for listening. I would really appreciate it if you would leave a review or rating on Apple Podcasts, or share the podcast with someone that you think will enjoy it. Ok, bye for now.
JJ & Janelle
JANELLE: I ended up taking a snapchat selfie, and I wrote I miss you.
JJ: I miss you. And it was a picture of her with a drink.
JANELLE: And I sent it to everyone in my Snapchat.
JJ: I thought that was just to me. And later I find out she sent that to like all her friends on Snapchat!
MARIA: Welcome to Equal Parts, a series of true love stories, told by the couples themselves. This week’s couple found an ice breaker, and a connection-maker in football, and fantasy football, where the weekly tactics and rankings offered a convenient excuse to stay on each other’s minds, week after week… after week.
JANELLE: My name is Janelle, I'm from Buffalo, New York, in America.
JJ: I'm JJ. I'm originally from Wallingford, Connecticut, now live in Buffalo, New York.
JANELLE: I'm a physical therapist or a physio, as it's known in the UK.
JJ: Janelle and I moved here towards the middle of last year.
JANELLE: My husband is JJ, we met eight years ago and we've been together..
JJ & JANELLE: Seven years.
JJ: Janelle, she is just one of the smartest, most dedicated person I know.
JANELLE: He is just the nicest, most kind person that I've ever met.
JJ: She's there for whatever you know is going on in my life you know, she's always there to listen, there to help out, offer advice.
JANELLE: And he's just... he has this like corny funniness [laughs]. His overwhelming qualities is that he's just honest, genuine, just so kind, and just a really great person!
JJ: She's amazing. Yeah.
JANELLE: So I, basically since I was, you know, younger, and in high school, I had kind of always had a boyfriend, and then was in graduate school for physical therapy and had a breakup and was kind of like, I'm not going to date anyone for a while, and I signed up to train for a marathon. So I was doing all these things just for myself, I think I was single for about two years. And then it was that tail end of being single that I signed up to, you know, train and do all this running.
People kept trying to introduce me to other people, and, you know, come date my friend, and whatever. And if it fit into, like, my training schedule, and my school, because for graduate school it was pretty rigorous. And I also had a few side jobs just to be making ends meet. So I was, I think, I would say I was at a point in my life where I was feeling pretty independent and strong.
JJ: When we first met, I wasn't really in the market per se, like, I wasn't looking for a girlfriend, or I wasn't sure if I really wanted to get into a relationship at the time. I would say I was kinda, maybe more on the immature side, just wanted to hang out with the boys, have some drinks, go out. I was in grad school at the time. So I really wasn't thinking of the next step in regards to a relationship.
JANELLE: So, I had my clinical place at a hospital very close by, it was in Philadelphia. There were two other students there, and their names were Matt and Mike, and it was this weird thing where we all just felt like we were, we like knew each other forever, and we were just really like minded people that just got along right away. Matt was married, Mike had a girlfriend. And they were both strangely - because I feel like guys are not usually like this - but they were both obsessed with like finding somebody for me. Because I guess they have all these cool friends or whatever, that they thought would be good for me.
So basically, Matt especially was like, I have this friend, I have this friend, I have this friend. And so I was meeting them here and there and kind of like, whatever. And then we ended up - one of I think the doctors at that hospital retired - and there was this big party at the end of the summer. And they had, you know, their significant others. I think Matt and his wife left, so I was just third wheeling with Mike and his girlfriend. And it just got to the point that I was like, “don't you have any friends that like, would be good for me?”. Because like Matt was like, you know, on this mission, but Mike never really brought anyone forward, I guess, and then he was like, you know, “I've been thinking all summer I have the perfect friend for you! But he lives in Connecticut.” I was like, “well, what do you mean, the ‘perfect’ friend for me?!” [laughs] And he just went on about how he loves soccer, you know, he's in grad school….
JJ: He knew she loves soccer. And he knows I love soccer...
JANELLE: … A few other qualities. And I was like, “ok, he's four hours away... So let me know if he's around ever.”
JJ: “Might try to hook you guys up.”
JANELLE: That was the first I heard of him. And Mike actually, I think pulled JJ up on my phone, like on Facebook and added him as a friend for me. So I can, you know, I can only see a few things. So I'm just looking through them like, I don't know. You know, he kind of looked [laughs] - my first impression was that he kind of looks like a little kid! Like he was just wearing these really baggy clothes in his like profile picture, which I don't know if it was like a themed party or something strange that he was doing, but I was just like, I don't know. And so I think a week went on and I never got an accepted friend request. So I was like, “Mike, what's up with this? Your friend doesn't want to be my friend.” I think within a minute he had texted him and it was accepted. Then we were just Facebook friends, but we weren't talking or anything.
JJ: When he mentioned, you know, hey, you guys should meet. We planned a trip down there. I mean, a few, a few of our friends, we drove down to Philly.
JANELLE: Mike texted me and said, “a bunch of my friends are coming up this weekend, if you want to come over Friday”, and I was like, “sure, I'm not doing anything, but I'm gonna run six miles first. So I might be kind of late” [laughs].
JJ: I’d say we didn't really kick it off, right at first. When Janelle came to his apartment, we were all just playing beer pong. And Janelle comes in, and it’s like, “oh, who’s that that cute girl that just walked in?” And Mike would say “oh that’s Janelle!” I was like, “oh nice!”.
JANELLE: I got there very late. They were all already kind of half drunk and doing all kinds of crazy things, playing all different variations of beer pong, and basically just about ready to get going to the bar. And I didn't know any of them, except Mike and his girlfriend, who I had just met. So I was meeting basically like five or six new people that I didn't know.
JJ: The first thing I saw was she had her hair cut, like, like shoulder length. And I remember I like, I love, I love that. And I saw it, was like, “oh, that's so, so beautiful. I want to go talk to her.” But of course, I was being a little wuss about it. I think I was playing with my buddy... Another Mike. There's a lot of Mikes. He was my beer pong partner. I was like, “hey, Mike, I think that's Janelle!”. And I think she was wearing a long sweater type thing. Yeah, that was, that was kind of the first impression there. And it must have been awkward for Janelle, because she walks into this apartment with four, five guys just being annoying, playing beer pong, and just like, “oh, which one's JJ?”
JANELLE: So I'm definitely the kind of person that is not the life of the party, I would not come in and you know, suddenly be having the time of my life, I would usually be looking around kind of like, I don't know who to talk to, I would almost never go to something like that by myself. But like I said, I was feeling like this newly independent - and I had no other plans other than running.
So I walked in, and they actually had this beer pong table set up basically right in front of the door, so I went in the door and almost hit them all, they were playing right there. And then I could tell they were all like, a little crazy, but they actually all stopped for a second, went around the room and introduced themselves. So I knew which one was JJ.
JJ: I remember it took me a little bit to actually go say hi.
JANELLE: We went to the first bar. And JJ didn't talk to me at all [laughs]. And we ended up walking into a different bar. And when we got to the bar, there was a huge projector screen, and there was a soccer game on TV. And I don't remember the game, I don't think it was any important, specific game. But the fact that there was a game on was very significant, because immediately me and JJ were like “there’s soccer on TV!”.
JJ: I just remember talking to her. And I thought she was like, cutest little thing… It was great.
JANELLE: Eventually, at the end of the night, just all went our separate ways. And I remember thinking, maybe he's not that interested or who knows, but he lives far away. So we'll see.
JJ: We hung out that weekend a little bit, just had some good conversations. And then it actually took my next visit down to Philly for things to really kick off.
I think there was a few, probably a few months in between. and we went a little bit of time when we had left the first time of not really talking. But I was in grad school, so I was still in classes and Janelle was getting her doctorate of physical therapy, so she was still in school doing her clinical. And while I was in my classes I would be writing to her on - I had a chat on my Mac. I remember one one time I wrote a -
JANELLE: The famous -
JJ: Hey, do you want to join my fantasy Premier League?
JANELLE: Do you want to join my Fantasy Premier League?
JJ: I was super romantic [laughs]. I think it kind of caught her off guard. But I don't even know - to today I don't even know if she really knew what I was talking about at the time. But she was like “sure!” [laughs].
JANELLE: [Laughing] I'd love to play fantasy Premier League. That sounds fantastic! That's like, I've never played that. But it sounds like so much fun! Because I was the crazy person who always got up and watched by myself at you know, here at seven in the morning. All my roommates didn't crawl out of bed till 11 or 12. And I had already watched you know, three or four matches by then. And so in my mind I was like yeah, like I already know like, which players are good on all these different teams because I just love watching soccer in general. So I think I would be really good at that!
I wasn't as good as I thought I would be but it was fun nonetheless. But it was good, it was a nice little way to stay in touch.
It definitely felt like, you know, friends at first and then, but I also felt like if there were the right circumstances, that it could be more, it just didn't, it felt very unknown about how that was even a possibility.
JJ: Even though we didn't really kick off that first time, you still had that feeling that it could have been something a little more than friends there. So I didn’t view it as just like, hey, let's just stay in touch as friends, it was more so I can see our time coming. I just don't know how to approach it or - she was from Buffalo, so like, to me that was like, countries away, like that was just so far from Connecticut at the time. And I'm like, I can't really see it working out. But I'm willing to, you know, stay in touch, and potentially, let's give this a shot.
So I think every time we did speak a little bit here and there, it kind of, wasn't just like I was talking to a friend, you kind of got the little little butterflies there. And I think that fantasy Premier League was just solidifying something that we would have a common interest in for - the Premier League season is so long, so we'd be talking every week! [laughs].
JANELLE: November came, and I ran my marathon. And then I was ready to go out and party with my roommates! [laughs]. So Snapchat was kind of new at the time. And that was back when you would just take a random Snapchat of something and you would send it to every single person that you were friends with.
JJ: I was actually at my buddy's house, he was having a little get together, it was pretty much the same group of guys that was down in Philly [laughs]. So I just remember being like, “oh, guys, she sent me a Snapchat!”
JANELLE: I don't know if JJ was on my mind a lot. But I ended up taking a snapchat selfie. And I wrote I miss you...
JJ: ‘I miss you’. And it was a picture of her with a drink.
JANELLE: And I sent it to everyone in my Snapchat.
JJ: I thought that was... just to me.
JANELLE: I think every single person that received it thought it was meant for them only! But I do, I do remember thinking like I wanted to send it to JJ, I just felt weird only sending it to JJ. So I just sent it to everyone.
JJ: So I was all pumped. I'm like, yeah! I was like, oh, “I miss you too”. And later I find out she sent that to like all her friends on Snapchat. But [laughs] I felt special that day.
JANELLE: I remember thinking for New Year's, that would be a cool way to just like run into each other. But I was like, I don't know how that could just like happen. I mean, I can't just like make him go somewhere. And I'm certainly not going to just go to a random bar in Connecticut and just hope he goes there! So me and my sister decided we were going to go to New York City for New Year's. And I figured that's kind of close to Connecticut. So maybe if I mentioned it, JJ would just be like, “oh, yeah, you know, we're gonna all go there too”, or something. But that did not happen.
When I woke up that next morning, I said to myself, I'm just going to ask him if we're ever going to see each other because at this point, there's not really a point in talking anymore… if we're just randomly chatting, and that's it. So yeah, I just texted him and said, “so when do I get to see you again?” And he wrote back and said, “yeah, I've been wondering the same thing.” And I was like, so why didn't you ask me that then? [laughs] Why did I have to ask you that? Yeah, he rounded up all his buddies. And they all came back to Philly the next weekend.
JJ: And I just remember, it was still... it wasn't awkward by any means, but it was just a lot of conversation, getting to really know each other. And she seemed to really bond with everyone else too, so that was really great. I think we definitely spoke a lot about just our passions. We spoke a lot about soccer, travel, she had been to a bunch of different places, she had studied abroad in Australia, it was just all these places that I truly envied, like, I want to go there. So it was a, really just took the time and really got to know each other, which I think was awesome. We connected on so many different levels and partly what we wanted out of life, but also just what we like to do for fun. And then I just remember literally waiting till like the very, very, very last minute to make a move and kiss her. So I think she was probably wondering the whole time what is this guy's issue?
JANELLE: He finally kissed me [laughs], because I think he felt, you know, his back was against the wall and he couldn't delay it any further, if we were gonna have a chance at anything. And so, yeah, he finally kissed me. And I was like, ok, I think this is happening now.
JJ: We talk about it quite often. It's all a big joke now but, it was just funny because you hear so many things where it's like, oh, love at first sight and all that. And absolutely, that happens. But it was just, it took us a little longer to get going. And I think that time period, though of the few months it was, just really allowed us to get to know each other. Because once we did finally kick it off, things just moved super quick.
JANELLE: It's interesting, we actually both graduated on the same day from our graduate programmes, so we were both in this stage where we didn't know necessarily where we were going to be working or what life was bringing next. And I think we both kind of influenced each other's decision to ultimately move to Boston, in Massachusetts. And so it was nice because we sort of moved to this new place, we were both new there, it was a nice thing that we just tackled together. And then we could finally sort of not be doing long distance and actually hang out regularly.
JJ: Once we finally decided to move to Boston, it was like, oh, we're like we're finally gonna be in the same spot. We don't have to travel four or five, six hours just to see each other anymore [laughs]. That was that was actually great. When we first moved there, Janelle was in an apartment already. She got there before I did. And I actually found an apartment about a half mile down the road. But quickly, I've ended up living with them pretty much. Yeah, that was, that was that was the start of it!
We probably would not have met if it wasn't for soccer, because that's kind of what really linked us together there. But from the day we met to today, seven or eight years later, that's such a significant and massive bond in our lives that we both just connect to on a daily basis. We probably would not have met if it wasn't for soccer, our love for soccer.
Equal Parts is produced by me, Maria Passingham. Thank you so much JJ and Janelle for sharing your story. Best of luck with the fantasy league!
Before COVID, JJ & Janelle travelled a lot, often for football. If you want to keep up with them to see where they go in the future, you can follow them on Instagram @ extratimeabroad.
The music for Equal Parts comes from Audio Network, and this week’s artwork is a gorgeous watercolour by Niamh Lehane. You can see all of the illustrations for Equal Parts on the website - equalpartspodcast.co.uk and click through to see more of Niamh’s work.
Next week - the final episode of Season 2 - dancing with a stranger until the sun comes up. And then… what next?
TY: Oh my god there goes my dream man! Not only is this man tall and beautiful and offered me a lollipop and he’s dancing, but he’s also German! I was like, this can’t be real, this can’t be happening.
STANISLAV: We were just like, chatting, and more dancing, and looking at each other.
TY: I guess because we met quite late in the night, by this time the sun was coming up, so we went down onto the rocks, and we were like dancing and watching the sun rise over the ocean.
STANISLAV: The music stopped, and I was like, ‘oh, ok, this is now over, yeah I would love to hang out with you, but…’ I can’t be so… I didn’t want to be greedy, too greedy, too like ‘yeah, yeah, I love you!’
AMIR & AAMIR
AMIR: I remember he was wearing this black top, and black jeans, and these black chelsea boots, and you know he's an emo rock kind of guy at his core.
AAMIR: I'm telling you as my outfit that made it work. I looked so good that night.
AMIR: I was like, ‘yeah, he does look cute.’ And then my friend was like, ‘you both want to kiss each other, you might as well just kiss each other.’ And we did and it just felt magical.
AAMIR: I found my family in him, and I’m blessed and lucky. That's it. I'm set for life.
MARIA: Welcome to Equal Parts, a series of true love stories, told by the couples themselves. This week, our love story starts with a familiar scene. A friend introduces you to someone they’re sure you’ll hit it off with, but you get bad vibes from the start, And your upturned nose, only puts the other off more.
Luckily for this couple, a combination of persistent friends and unavoidable proximity, created space for bad feelings to dissipate and time for a true connection to form.
By the way, there is a swear in this story.
AMIR: My name is Amir and I am one half owner of the You Don't Love Me Boys brand I suppose.
AAMIR: My name is Aamir. I work in education and I am from Bradford but I currently live in Manchester.
AMIR: We are known for the You Don't Love Me podcast and the You Don't Love Me radio show.
My partner is a wonderful guy called Aamir, as well, of course he’s wonderful, he has the same name as me! And we have been married for over a year now. And we've been together for..
AAMIR: Six years, this New Year[s].
On the surface he’s really tough, sort of, you know, a strong headed, and he is underneath, he’s a strong headed, confident person. And I'm really attracted to confidence.
AMIR: He's got a very hard exterior, but a very soft interior.
AAMIR: Underneath all that, he’s a really sweet and loving and caring individual. Everything he does, really comes from the heart.
AMIR: He is somebody who loves deeply and he's very, very passionate,
AAMIR: I had a really fiery temper, like really hot-headed, really fiery temper, and everything I went to was at 100, you know, with disagreements with friends, arguments, everything was full on hardcore 100. And what I've learned from him is patience.
I’ve also learned, on the side of that, I learned a lot more about our culture. Because growing up, I sort of neglected my South Asian heritage just because I didn’t want to be part of the religion. And for me, I didn't realise you could separate both of things, the religion and the culture, just because of the way my family was. But he taught me I could separate them, and I could, and I had every right to, you know, fall in love with South Asian culture. I love Bollywood, love all the colours, of all the music. And I learned a lot of that from him as well.
He’s a very, very astute and very smart person. And also he's just so funny. Like, I know that's really simple, but I need someone that can make me laugh every day. And he makes me laugh every single day.
AMIR: We are polar opposites. In terms of our demeanour, the way we carry ourselves, the way we dress, you know, our tastes in music, some parts of even our upbringing, you know, we're different people. And when we met, I was all about, you know, taking things slowly and being calm, and you know, very ‘Downton Abbey’ aspirations. And he was all about rock music and going out and having fun. And when the masks were off, I think I saw a soft side in him that wasn't necessarily loud. And he saw a goofy side of me that wasn't, you know, necessarily aspiring to look or try and come across as so polished. What my weaknesses may be, those are his strengths and vice versa. So we are able to support each other.
And I think that you know, love and all that tranquillity aside, a relationship and a marriage is essentially about supporting each other and enabling each other to be the best version of themselves. So for example, I might be doing something and I get anxious, and he knows that I can get involved in the granular details of things too much. And he knows when to pick that up with me and draw me out of that.
And I think that's one of the reasons why we work. We want the best for each other. I think I'm lucky to have someone like him in my life, you know, somebody who accepts me for all of my facets.
AAMIR: So when I met Amir, I think I was younger! [laughs] I wasn't as tired. [laughs] I didn't have any back pain. I was, no I, yeah, I was younger. It was actually when I met Amir it was at the very start of my career. So I was very much like, oh, I've got - not very much- but I finally got some money. So I was like, every weekend, let's go out and spend that money. Because when you first get it, it's magical. Amazing. So when I first met Amir, I think I was a very confident person, because I'm a very confident person. I was self assured with who I was. And I was a bit wild and crazy, loud party animal. And I think now I have all them facets still, but I think I'm just a more evolved version of that. You know, I think it's just a natural thing as you get older. You don't need to go out every single, you know, three days a week to get drunk off your face because… you know what? You can’t handle the hangover anymore!
AMIR: The first time I met Aamir, I actually didn't very much like him. And the feeling was very much mutual. As destiny would have had it, I moved back to my hometown, and Aamir lived in the same hometown. And I actually remembered Aamir from school days. He doesn't remember me but, but I do remember him and my friend said ‘oh, let's go on a night out. There's a guy called Amir. I don't know if you know him or not. We'll go on a night out together’... because I didn't know anyone!
AAMIR: So we met through a mutual friend. He messaged me and he was like, ‘okay, we're going out and picking up my friend Amir, you've got the same name. He's not drinking, so he’s gonna drive us to Leeds and you're gonna meet him and you’re gonna make friends, and it’s gonna be cute, kiki, and it’s gonna be amazing and sickening.
So, you know, we decide outfits. I always wear black, because you know - I try colour now I'm pushing myself, - you know and I was getting my friend to choose an outfit. It was an okay outfit. This is very important to the later story, trust me.
AMIR: I remember he was wearing this black top, and black jeans, and these black chelsea boots, and you know he's an emo rock kind of guy at his core. So you know, he revels in all things black and what have you.
AAMIR: And then I remember Amir pulled up in his car, and I got in. It was a bit awkward at first because it's like, I don't know this person and I haven't been drinking yet. And he's not drinking so it's a bit uncomfortable and awkward. And he started talking and I was like, ‘oh my god, he's so posh.’ I was like ‘who is he? How is he from this town?’
AMIR: You know, we both come from a Yorkshire town but I don't have much of a Yorkshire accent, he has much more of a Yorkshire accent. And he said, ‘oh my god, you sound so posh. Oh, my God, you sound so posh!’ And I was like,’Ok, great, thanks!’. You know, and he I think he thought I was a little bit snobby, and you know, a little bit up my own ass, so to speak... And that's not entirely untrue!
AAMIR: And then we pulled up at Bargain Booze. And me and my friend got some alcohol, for the car journey, and I could see his little eyes and the front rolling, like, ‘who these queens think they are?’ Like, ‘no they’re just trash’. And I was like, ‘who the fuck do you think you are? You're posh, pompous.’ But I was like, nope, he's my ride. He's my ride there.
We got to Leeds and, you know, for once, it was a really, really quiet night in the place where we went. But I was living because it means I got to control the DJ. So I was living my best life, I was dancing on like the pole cage or whatever it is.
AMIR: Literally bouncing off the walls,
AAMIR: You know, doing all my dance moves, living!
AMIR: Upside down and all this jazz. And I was like, ok...
AAMIR: Amir was just sort of like, stood in the corner with his like, Diet Coke, like, ‘oh, ok, this isn't for me.’ He probably thought I was really loud and forthright and like too much.
AMIR: I said to my friend, I was like, ‘I don't think he's the type of person I want to hang out with. So like, can we not do a night out together, please.’ And my friend was like, ‘ok, fine, whatever.’
And then, as destiny would have it, we ended up on another night out together. And my best friend at the time was out with me. And he said, ‘oh, Aamir looks really fit, doesn't he?’
AAMIR: I'm telling you it was my outfit that made it work. I looked so good that night.
AMIR: Aamir was wearing this mesh jumper, go figure right? November time, November, December. And I was like, ‘yeah, he does look cute.’
AAMIR: It's really strange, because it really happened organically and naturally. And nothing was forced. And we just started hitting it off and we started flirting a little bit. And then it grew from there.
AMIR: Started spending time with each other and we'd go on a night out and you know, talk till three, four in the morning. And we'd parked the car up by this nature reserve and talk about music and politics and all sorts.
AAMIR: Getting to learn a lot about each other. Just small stuff. Like, I remember being in the car and like I was ok, it’s time now he listens to the music I like, pressing the button, and all this screaming music comes out and he was fine.
AMIR: And then I remember we went on a subsequent night out and my friend was like, ‘you both want to kiss each other, you might as well just kiss each other.’ And we did and it just felt magical.
AAMIR: He took me on our first date, to a restaurant in Leeds called Mumtaz, really good South Asian food. And that was a really lovely, lovely, lovely first date.
It’s sort of a rare story within the gay community sometimes, because there was never a hookup. It was a really organic relationship.
AMIR: We just carried on spending more and more time with each other. And on New Year's Eve, we were in Leeds. And it was officially [laughs] such a gay story! But we we went to one drag queen show bar called Viaduct and we skipped along to another bar called Fibre.
AAMIR: If I remember rightfully so, between Viaduct, a drag show bar, and Fibre, like crossing the road, we had like a conversation.
AMIR: Amir was saying ‘I don't want to be with anyone else’. And I said, ‘well, I don't want to be with anyone else either.’ And he was like, ‘well, why don't you just say that it's official.’ And I was like, ‘oh, well, is that what it means to be official? That you don't want to be with anyone else? In that case? Fine. Yeah,we're together.’
AAMIR: We made it official on New Year's.
AMIR: ‘Yeah, sure, fine, we're together.’ [laughs] And then we brought the new year in as a couple!
AAMI: Then we fell in love, and then that summer went our first holiday to Budapest, which is where he lived previously for about a year. And then we moved in together after about a year. And then I was like, I'm ready to get proposed to. I knew, I knew he was the one within like six weeks. I was like, yeah, he's the one. I just knew it.
It's really strange, right? And I always wonder if other couples have this. I feel like we have some sort of telepathy, some kind of sync, we really, really really know what each other is thinking and feeling, it’s like another level. I don't know what it is, but I think we’re just meant to be, I genuinely think that's what it is.
About one and a half years in, he proposed and we enjoyed that engagement for a while, and then we got married. Really, really small wedding, intimate wedding, with our nearest and dearest.
AMIR: So unfortunately, my family were not part of my wedding and they haven't been part of my journey for a number of years now, due to their cultural and religious views. And that has been difficult for me in the past and it's something that I've overcome.
I'm sad to say, but at the same time grateful to say that I'm not the only one. There are others like me and I have connected with people who do share a similar story to myself, and are able to support each other and create our own happy gay family. That's been very, very important to me. As gay people, we do get to choose our families.
With myself, unfortunately, as a result of me being gay, my family have disowned me, and I don't have a relationship with them at this moment in time. However, what I would say is, you know, one can only respect other people's opinions, but stay true to themselves, I think it is the best course of action. And that's what I've done. I'm grateful for the people who surround me, because I thrive in an environment where I'm surrounded by people who celebrate me rather than discriminate. And I think I'm on my way to achieving that. And you know, if that means that my family, my biological family, rather, won't be part of that journey, then, you know, that's that's just the way my life is.
AAMIR: When I was, I think about 18. I started purposely distancing myself from my relatives and extended family for many reasons. They were toxic people, put my sexuality aside, they were toxic people, they were not… It wasn't a safe environment from the extended family at all. And they were horrible, horrible people. And I think some people struggle with splitting that because ‘oh, it's family. It's ok.’ I'm like, ‘family to do this’. So I distanced myself. But I think in the back of my mind, I knew for the fact that they were not going to accept me for being gay anyway. Because it's always been spoken about... if anyone's gay in our family, you know, in extended family… they're out on the streets. It's not happening. So I managed to assimilate that very, very fast. And I was like, ok, cool, it’s not gonna work. And regardless of my sexuality, I don’t want to be around people are like that. But I'm very, very, very fortunate to have a great relationship with my mum, I'm very lucky. And she's very supportive, and she absolutely loves Amir, absolutely adores him. So we were very blessed to have her in our life. So I'm very happy about that.
AMIR: Manchester is a wonderful city. And I'm really, really glad that me and Aamir have moved here. One of the main reasons why we moved here was because we were drawn to a more cosmopolitan environment, and we wanted to live somewhere that's a little bit more open, open minded and a lot more sort of accepting. And I think there's many, many places like that in England now. But Manchester is just such a great, edgy city. And I think here we really can feel like we are surrounded by our gay family. And, you know, there's a wonderful drag queen, who's who is family to us, called Val Qaeda. She's been instrumental in helping us be, you know, be settled here. And she’s one of Manchester's premier drag queens that I, I will forever be grateful for in terms of, you know, not necessarily rescuing us from from where we were before, we had a great time where we live before as well, but really helping us see more people like us and really supporting us, you know, that, that really has meant a lot to us. And, you know, there's there's been drag queens who have you know, sent us messages saying, and other gay people saying you know, ‘welcome home’, and we do really feel at home here.
AAMIR: We were living in, you know, a small town near a difficult city to live, and we like, we ended up there, that's how it is, you know. But with lockdown, we learned a lot. So what would usually happen outside of lockdown in ‘normal life’, I call it now, we went on like five, six holidays a year, we were out in different cities every other weekend. So we could, outside of work, we could sort of escape our reality, so to speak, of what was going on around us and not being able to live our truth. When lockdown came, we couldn't go anywhere. So you are forced with your reality. And we're smart thinkers and we’re quick thinkers, thinking, ‘uh uh, this ain’t for us, we’re moving’.
I can't be old and look back and regret ever. So I look back at our last chapter: amazing. That was an amazing chapter. We had successful careers there. We built our relationship there, we got married, we came out, we did so many amazing things. Now it's time for a new chapter, where we are going to be surrounded by a gay family in Manchester. And it's going to be an incredible chapter and then I'm excited for the next chapter after that, because who knows where life's gonna take us. But I know we're both open to anything.
AMIR: I think for me and Aamir, there is a huge unknown in terms of what the future for us will look like. I think there is an excitement around the unknown. I think right now we really want to enjoy our time in Manchester. Reach out to any queer people, particularly queer people of colour who resonate with our stories and would like to be part of a larger, wider community, really regardless of sort of race, religion, creed, you know, we sort of want to promote queer safe spaces, and very much be part of that. And I think, you know, wherever that leads us, we'd be happy to follow and I also play an alter ego called Lady Bushra, which I won't talk too much about, but you know, I'm really looking forward to taking her on the Manchester gay strip and in Manchester gay village, and see what we do with it, and have a one woman show! I'm excited for that as well.
AAMIR: Love and falling in love is amazing. Love between friends and family and even pets. Anything is amazing. Love is incredible, and I've been in situations that people are like ‘love is disgusting’ like ‘no, love is an amazing thing’. It's the thing that's going to push and keep the world going. Go and share love, and if people don’t give you it back, don't waste your breath. It's not worth it. If coronavirus has taught you anything, ‘why are you wasting your breath on these arguments and on these people, when you can talk to someone that will celebrate everything you do, and you can celebrate them, you can uplift each other?’
And I always call myself fortunate. And it's really weird, because like when people with me and Amir, they’re like ‘oh family situations and this and that’ and yeah, life is hard for everyone, everyone's been difficulties, but my god am I fortunate to have found such an incredible human and such an incredible person, and a partner, husband and someone so understanding and caring and like that's my family. I found my family in him. And I'm blessed and lucky. That's it. I'm set for life.
AMIR: You know, one of the mottos of gay marriage was, was that love wins. And I think after getting married I realised that when you do get married love does really win and it does conquer all because, you know, homophobia, attacks, condemnation, whatever, doesn't matter. Because guess what, you reached your end goal, you were together and you got a legal stamp on it and it's recognised by the state that you pay taxes in like, you can't you can't get more of a sort of validation than that, and your love for each other is what brought you there.
MARIA: Equal Parts is produced by me, Maria Passingham. Amir and Aamir, thank you both so much. I can’t wait to party with you in Manchester!
If you’d like to keep up with Amir & Aamir, you can follow them on Twitter & Instagram, look for You Don’t Love Me Boys, and listen to their podcast, where they explore topics like representation, race & sexuality, from a gay South Asian perspective. Search for You Don’t Love Me on Apple or Spotify and subscribe now! Of course there’s links to all of these in the show notes for this episode!
Audio Network provides the music for Equal Parts, and this week’s artwork comes from Danielle Casimiro. It’s a joyful, colourful, pattern-ful piece. Go to EqualPartsPodcast.co.uk to see it, or search #EqualPartsPodcast on socials to check it out.
If you found yourself smiling while listening to this episode, please let others know. It’s really helpful if you rate and review Equal Parts on Apple podcasts, or share the link on social media. Thank you so much!
Next week.. When soccer breaks the silence.
JANELLE: So I walked in, and they actually had this beer pong table set up basically right in front of the door. So I went in the door and almost hit them all. But they actually all stopped for a second, went around the room and introduced themselves. So I knew which one was JJ.
JJ: I remember it took me a little bit to actually go say hi.
JANELLE: We went to the first bar. And JJ didn't talk to me at all. And we ended up walking into a different bar. And when we got to the bar, there was a huge projector screen. And there was a soccer game on TV.
JJ: ‘Hey, do you want to join my fantasy Premier League?’ Super romantic [laughs]. Think it kind of caught her off guard. But I don't even know if she really knew what I was talking about at the time. But she was like ‘sure!’
JANELLE: I'd love to play fantasy Premier League. That sounds fantastic!
CLARE & RANDY
RANDY: ‘Hey, how would you feel if I came visit you in a month or so?’
CLARE: I know, it does sound absolutely insane actually spending money to buy tickets to Arizona, to end up meeting somebody, but I wasn't in the slightest bit concerned.
RANDY: All the way from England, just to see me?’
MARIA: Welcome to Equal Parts, a series of true love stories, told by the couples themselves.
Today’s tale is one of gazing at the night sky, and into each other's eyes.
Connecting initially through a major astronomical event,
This couple realised an undeniable force was pulling them together,
from opposite sides of the world.
CLARE: My name is Clare. I'm a private tutor in Manchester. Maths and Physics... and a bit of astronomy.
RANDY: I'm Randy and I grew up in Wisconsin back in the States. Then lived in Arizona for a while, before I met my wife, Clare, and came here to Manchester to be with her.
CLARE: So my partner is Randy, and we've been together… well, since 2015, as far as when we started, essentially started a relationship. But as far as physically being in the same country together? That's been four years.
RANDY: When I met Clare, my dad had just recently passed away, and I was living with my mom at the time.
CLARE: I was trying to sort my life out! [laughs] In that I was living with my parents for a brief amount of time, I had been considering moving to North America, that's absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I ended up marrying an American, that, they’re completely separate coincidental things!
RANDY: I was having a hard time out of work and spending lots of time online.
CLARE: Since I was living with my parents… and they lived kind of in the middle of nowhere. So I was spending a lot more time online than I had been while I was living in Manchester,
RANDY: My dad had set up a big backyard observatory, before he died. And so I was using the telescopes to take lots of Astro-photography pictures like the Pleiades here. And following lots of space stuff, including the New Horizons Pluto flyby mission, which was how I met her basically.
CLARE: It was on Twitter, and we were both interested in the same things... we were particularly interested in the Pluto flyby that was happening. New Horizons was just a spacecraft that was flying by Pluto, which I know sounds like it's maybe a ‘non event’ flying by Pluto because it's not like it's landing on it or anything. But, we didn't have any good pictures of Pluto or much information about Pluto at all until that point.
RANDY: Something like five years earlier around 2005, 2007, something like that, they launched the New Horizons spacecraft, which because Pluto is so far away took a look like something like 10 years to get out there. And then in July 2015, it actually passed by like, the actual like payoff was just like a couple of hours zipping past Pluto. And then, then waiting for the data to be downloaded because the bandwidth from Pluto really sucks!
CLARE: It became quite a special thing because we had all these lovely pictures of Pluto now, and it kind of looks like it's got a heart? I don't know if that rings any bells with people?
RANDY: Pluto’s heart - I think it's officially called the Tombaugh Regio, after the discoverer Clyde Tombaugh, whose, whose ashes were actually on the spacecraft as it went past.
CLARE: It was a really exciting thing for people who were interested in space especially, it was in astronomy discussions on Twitter a lot.
RANDY: There was lots of anticipation amongst the nerd crowd. So we were both on Twitter and following the official flyby and some of the more humorous accounts, like the one one pretending to be Pluto.
So, I don't remember exactly what she had posted. But one of us made a joke and then the other commented on how clever that was, or something like that. I think in private chat at that point.
RANDY: Then we just started talking from there and sort of realised that we really liked each other, and then that we really liked each other. One of the earliest things that sorted of made me think you know, more than just a nerdy friend on Twitter was, I referenced a Red Hot Chilli Peppers song, not one of the really well known ones - ‘Feel the Pain’ - and I like quoted some lyrics to it in a joke that I didn't think she would get, and she, she totally knew what I was talking about. I was like ‘woah’.
CLARE: We ended up having a lot of dm conversations. And then eventually, we ended up actually contacting each other on Skype.
I certainly wasn't concerned about Skyping somebody who I only messaged on Twitter. It is very different, especially if you’ve got the video. It was strange, because I'd not actually seen him.... I think that there'd been a few photographs that he shared. But it was definitely different seeing him ‘in person’ that was initially a bit strange. But, it still just felt very natural. And we were having quite an intimate relationship even, before even meeting, and that was all via Skype.
RANDY: Within a month or so, she’s like, ‘hey, how would you feel if I came visit you in a month or so?’ and it's like,’ all the way from England? Just to see me?’
CLARE: It does seem quite bizarre looking back in that the timeframe would have been very small, but nothing seemed like, ‘oh my god, I'm taking this huge jump’. Even - and I know, I know, it does sound absolutely insane actually spending money to buy tickets to Arizona, to end up meeting somebody, but I wasn't in the slightest bit concerned. And I, it could be partly because I'm just the sort of person that I do do things impulsively, sometimes, like, I sort of think I want to do this. And I'll go and do that.
I had romantic kind of ideas of when he…. because he was picking me up at the airport, at Phoenix airport. And so like, I was really excited thinking that he would be there waiting for me when I come out. And he wasn't because he hadn't got there yet.
He was driving from Tucson. So it's not like he'd forgotten about me or anything like that, it was just that it was a long journey. And timekeeping isn't his strength. But once I'd got inside the car, he leaned over to kiss me and we kissed, it was a lovely kiss, but I was kind of a little bit flustered because it had been a long journey, and then a lot of hanging around an airport. And then the stress of trying to spot which car was his... it was all a little bit exhausting. So it was a lot better…. afterwards!
RANDY: I had made like big lovely plans for a great seeing of all the all the sights of Arizona, and we went a little bit through New Mexico, Nevada, California. So took her on a big tour.
CLARE: It was out of this world. I mean, he showed me so many things -
RANDY: Telescopes, you know, the professional… top of a mountain ones!
CLARE: We went to… oh god, how many different places did we go to?
RANDY: The Grand Canyon and saw Hoover Dam.
CLARE: I'm not very good at remembering names of things.
RANDY: Joshua Tree National Park,
CLARE: And we camped in Death Valley!
RANDY: You know, the reputation Death Valley has for being you know, the hottest driest place. When we went there….. It rained overnight on us. We woke up with a wet tent!
CLARE: And the thing that made that pretty awesome is because then the following spring, there was actually like, beautiful blooms in Death Valley!
RANDY: I think she, she brought with her I blame her!
CLARE: I think that's what I did [laughs].
CLARE: I remember, like only a few months after, we'd actually met in person, that I just was like, okay, shall we get married? And he said he was annoyed because he wanted to ask me! [laughs]
RANDY: So next, I went to visit her and met her parents and everything. And then we did another like, in much the same way as I had shown her Arizona. She showed me around Britain.
CLARE: He's a big fan of Wales. He's a quarter Welsh... So that's one thing, and also, he's, he's quite into the kind of Gaelic type stuff and, and so I knew that that would be interesting. And so we went to Betws-y-Coed - there’s The Fairy Glen there.
RANDY: I kind of awkwardly, because I found things were not in my pockets.... I meant to propose to her while we were visiting a little place called Fairy Glen.
CLARE: But when we were there, he was like looking in his pockets -
RANDY: And I discovered that, oh, I left the ring back in the hotel room drawer!
CLARE: I was like, ‘what have you forgotten?’ And I was pretty sure what he'd forgotten but I asked anyway.
RANDY: ‘Oh, nothing, no, nothing special going on here.’
CLARE: And he said ‘nothing of consequence’. And, um, yeah, he’d left it in the drawer in the B&B!
RANDY: And then later at night, did it over dinner at the lovely Cafe Betws-y-Coed.
CLARE: And he did it properly with a ring and everything.
RANDY: We've gone back repeatedly since then, for the memories a lot, but also because it's just really good food!
CLARE: I don't know how much people know about actually trying to marry an immigrant. But it's not as easy as people might think.
RANDY: There wasn't much keeping me attached to Arizona, and she does have more attachment here, especially doing her tutoring work here. And as far as the, the whole political environment goes, I was feeling less comfortable with how The States was trending.
CLARE: We had to get a fiance visa, you've got to send evidence that it's a genuine relationship, which involved us having to send conversations we'd had and also I had to prove that I was earning sufficient money.
RANDY: I had to get all my stuff packed up and figure out how to move nearly a household's worth overseas, which was complicated and kinda painful.
CLARE: And so while that was going on in the summer, I was also planning a wedding! And since he's a fan of castles and mediaeval stuff, I thought, well, it'd be nice to get married in a castle!
I found now Naworth Castle in Cumbria, but the problem was, because of the laws, before we could actually get legally married, if he had to be living in the UK for a certain amount of time, and it had to be proven that he was living in the UK for that certain amount of time. And we weren't going to be able to have that before the 22nd of September, which is when we wanted to get married, because that was the autumnal equinox. So it was like, right, okay, we can't legally get married then.
So we had a humanist wedding ceremony that was everything official except for legally binding, but then we had to get legally married. So we did that in a registry office in Manchester. And that was on the 31st of October. So we've got two cool anniversaries. We've got the autumnal equinox, and we've got Halloween [laughs].
We had a kind of almost a space theme, because of the way that we met was, regarding the Pluto flyby. So there was kind of like that theme in there, and the best lady... So essentially the best man in that it was Randy's friend, but she's a lady. She works for NASA. So it had an extra bonus space theme going on! [laughs] And my dad ended up having a waistcoat which had the planets and stuff on, like a really cool waistcoat.
To begin with, I kind of wanted everything to be comfortable straight away, in that I kind of wanted us to be like a couple that had been together for longer than we had been, when that sort of thing just has to happen naturally. I suppose things are just a slower pace now I think would be a better way of putting it.
RANDY: Just this past summer when we took our little holiday while we could, our first stop was at Kielder Observatory in the North. It's basically the best dark sky site within England to see the stars, and so they have an observatory there. It was billed as an aurora night, though it was, you know, fairly unlikely is auroras, England is not the best place to do stargazing!
CLARE: The heart on Pluto was something that admittedly was very useful for kind of callbacks. Once there was like, an anniversary kind of card that I made for him, which had the picture of Pluto, like, you know, somebody had kind of drawn it, emphasising the heart and stuff. So, it was, it was very good for our relationship as a sort of romantic thing.
Equal Parts is produced by me, Maria Passingham.
Clare and Randy, thank you so much for sharing your meeting story.
Thanks also to Audio Network for the music.
For every episode of Equal Parts, I ask an artist to create an impression of the story.
This week’s tale has been immortalised in a super sweet image by Big Art. You can find the illustration at EqualPartsPodcast.co.uk , where you can also find links to more of their work.
Of course, the website is also the place to go for transcripts of every episode.
Next time - Getting past awful first impressions.
AAMIR: It was a bit awkward at first because it's like, oh I don't know this person and I haven't been drinking yet. And he's not drinking so it's a bit uncomfortable and awkward. And he started talking, and I’m like oh my god, he's so posh. I was like, who is he? How is he from this town?
AMIR: You know, we both come from a Yorkshire town but I don't have much of a Yorkshire accent. He said, ‘oh my god, you sound so posh. Oh, my God, you sound so posh!’ And I was like, ‘ok, great, thanks’. You know, and he I think he thought I was a little bit snobby, and you know, a bit up my own ass so speak. And that’s not… entirely untrue [laughs].
Amaka & Toby
AMAKA: When you want something, and then when that thing comes to you, you're almost like, I'm not ready for it!
TOBY: This is my goal. And this is my motive, really. And I didn't expect her to kind of have a reply at that time.
AMAKA: I felt like I wasn't ready for it. I was like, ‘what?’
TOBY: That was like, you know, from zero to 100, in like 24 hours.
AMAKA: ‘Who does that?’ I was like ‘what are you talking about?’
MARIA: Welcome to Equal Parts, a series of true love stories, told by the couples themselves. This week’s story centres on a shift in perspective.
When someone you’ve known your whole life is suddenly cast in a new light, and years’ of a solid, slow, friendship, accelerates to a deep, loving, connection.
TOBY: My name is Toby, and I'm married to Amaka.
AMAKA: My name is Amaka, I just moved back to Manchester. And I am married my husband, Toby.
TOBY: We have two lovely children, Diamond and Royal.
AMAKA: We've been married now for five years, oh my goodness, where did the time go?
TOBY: That was actually incredible to think about, like, we've known each other for way longer, but we've been married for five years.
AMAKA: Toby is a gentle man, I see him as a, as a very strong person, in a gentle way, he’s quite sweet.,, When he wants to be! [laughs]
TOBY: So Amaka is a, is a very passionate person. She's someone that loves God, so you will not meet her without really knowing about her faith, it will, it will come out one way or the other. And when she's doing something, she really puts everything to it. And she does her best to make sure that is very good. And she, she thinks a lot about what she does, and she you know, reasons very well. And she gives great advice, I feel very privileged to be able to, you know, get advice from her.
AMAKA: He's very intelligent, he's very smart. He's knowledgeable about so many things. And he is quite loving as well.
TOBY: She's a very cheerful person, and she dances a lot and she, she's lively and you know, it is never boring around her, definitely not boring. It’s difficult to describe her in words, because sometimes you just feel that words don’t do justice.
AMAKA: Our families knew each other, our parents knew each other. I was closer, I was friends with his younger brother growing up.
TOBY: Because they were age mates. So they used to play a lot, they went to the same class. And were in the same year in school.
AMAKA: He would play football with my, you know, older brothers, they would hang out, we went to the same church, we went to the same school,
TOBY: We were like, very close family friends, even so people actually sometimes mistake us to be, you know, siblings.
AMAKA: He was almost like a brother. It was like, oh, that's my other brother. Like I never was, I wasn't thinking about marriage with Toby, it never crossed my mind, because I just saw him as another brother. It's a different kind of knowing somebody when, you know, you get into a relationship. So we had to go through that. And I believe we've become really better individuals together.
This was back in Nigeria, we grew up in Nigeria till I was about 11.
TOBY: We were actually neighbours in Nigeria. And when they, they first moved to Jamaica, and then from Jamaica, to the UK. But we've always kept in touch. So I used to - not just her but the entire family - I used to, you know, email or have phone calls. And I just call the family and speak to them really, as well as when I moved to Denmark. I used to go over and visit them sometimes go and visit the brother, and just really go over and spend some time with them.
AMAKA: He would email me, he would also maybe email my brothers as well, so it wasn't really anything at the time. So it was completely normal, I thought [laughs]. But it was, much later, when he moved to Denmark that he started inviting me to come to visit him in Denmark. And that took three years, it took years before I was able to do that [laughs].
TOBY: I think for me, one of the turning points was actually when I went to Nigeria to visit my family. So my younger brother - at that time, I was also very single and just busy doing my work really not bothered about anything - so my younger brother was like, ‘hey, you know, have you considered Amaka, I think you guys would be very good, you know, very good match.’ I was like, ‘hey, just, just stop it.’ You know, like, ‘come on, she's like a family friend’. I just shut it down. And he's my younger brother. So he was just, you know, making a nice suggestion to me. And I, I was like, you know, he's, he's just messing around. But after that, I kind of really started thinking about it. And I was like, hmm, you know, not, might not be a bad idea. But I was like, I needed to be sure for myself, you know, I needed to kind of take some time, think about it, pray about it, to figure it out for myself. So I was like, at some point when, you know, the whole… how will I put it... the whole idea started growing more within me, I thought you know what I would like to invite her to just kind of speak to her a bit different, in a different setting, obviously is always me going over, and it's like with her family, but I just wanted to use that opportunity to kind of find out 100% you know if that was really what I wanted.
So for me as well, I was not really interested in just dating or you know, just being girlfriend, especially also for her, so I had to be sure of what I wanted as well before even making any move in that direction. So when I was, let’s say I was like 80% convinced, and then I invited her because I wanted to kind of be sure, it was during that visit that I kind of became more sure that you know, this is what I want.
AMAKA: Oh my goodness, was it a romantic thing for him? I think that he was looking for something. I think that he was looking for a wife, right? And so when he was inviting me, although he said that, you know, at the time, it wasn't anything, you know, it was that family friendly, it was just that, okay, I'm inviting this family friend that I've always known, he would say to his defence, that as much as he was inviting me, he was also inviting my brothers, I’m like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
He kept asking, and he wanted to meet up or invite me, and then I would ask him, like, ‘ok, just me, and you? You know, it's not you just coming over to the family where I have my family and my brothers, and there's a group of people, just me and you?’ So it was like, yeah, you know, just as family friends.
I didn't have a relationship in my mind at the time, because at this point, I was already one year, just me and by myself, I was single, and I was just trying to focus on my relationship with God, honestly. But he kept asking and asking, and it's funny how it all happened, because I don’t know, I think he really asked and asked and asked, and really persisted. And yeah, I was like, do you know what, if you're so serious about this. Ok fine. I need a holiday anyway, like, work is crazy. Maybe I just, I'll just take this as a holiday. Yeah. And I said, ‘ok fine. I'm gonna, I'm gonna come visit you.’
I remember when I, when I said, yes, that I was going to go. And, you know, I told obviously, my siblings, ‘hey, I'm going to see Toby’ you know, and my sister made a joke. She was like,’ wow, are we expecting a Mrs -’? You know, his last name? And I was like, ‘how could you say that?’ Like, I was completely not thinking that anything was gonna happen. I was just like, ok, let me just oblige this guy. So that he was not disturbing my life.
TOBY: Obviously, I did pray a lot about it. So I take my spiritual life seriously. So I prayed a lot about it. So I was kind of convinced at that point. But when she, she visited Denmark, she was in the UK, she agreed to come, after, you know, she'll, she'll always say, like, you know, she didn't have time. And then suddenly, she agreed to come. So for me, that was like, a miracle. Because normally she's like, hey, she never even had time. And when she walked out from the airport, she was just like, very casual.
AMAKA: I just arrived with my dress on my slippers. Like I didn't, I don't think I had makeup on To be honest!
TOBY: No makeup, sandals or something like that, you know, just very casual and natural.
AMAKA: And this was something that he said that caught him, how simple I was when I arrived!
TOBY: For me at that point, when she walked in, I was like, you know what, that, that's, that was special.
AMAKA: I'm not really the girl that likes to, you know, be heavily-anything, because I don't like to draw attention to myself.
TOBY: And at that point, it came to like 90%. You could say that, and then we had some time to talk and and I was like, definitely, this is 100.
AMAKA: I remember arriving. And I spoke to my mum and I said, ‘oh, I've arrived safely. We're here now’. And my mum made jokes. And you know, I just didn't understand it. Because I was like, I'm on holiday. Like, this is a holiday, I guess they were seeing something that I was completely oblivious about.
My mindset at the time was ok, I'm just single, I'm just trying to build my work with God. And I'm not ready to be in a relationship. That wasn't what God had for me. Anyway, so we settled down, and he made some food, he prepared things, and we started talking. He literally told me that same day, he wanted to marry me.
TOBY: The next day I even told her my intention.
AMAKA: So that's when everything changed.
TOBY: Probably a bit weird, but [laughs] I kind of wanted to, like just keep this straight and say, ‘ok, this is, this is my goal. And this is my motive, really.’ And I didn't expect her to kind of have a reply at that time, because that was like, you know, from zero to 100, in like 24 hours.
AMAKA: In that moment, when he said that he wanted to marry me, I think I was a little bit confused. I didn't understand it, because I never experienced anything like that before. But at the same time, because I wanted God to bring the person that would be my husband, I didn't want to just have another boyfriend. So when he said that, I was like, wow, you know, he's not saying, I want us to date, I want us to, you know, I want us to court, or whatever. It was surprising. When you want something, and then when you... when that thing comes to you, you're almost like I'm not ready for it, you know? It was kind of that moment for me. It came and I was, I felt like I wasn't ready for it. I was like, ‘what? Who does that?’ I was like, ‘you're crazy. What are you talking about?’ And then he started explaining that he doesn't want to just be in a relationship that is for nothing. That he wants something long-term and this is his plans for our relationship.
TOBY: I think she was probably a bit shocked and like didn't know what to say, or didn't - she didn't reply. She was like, she had to think about this. And you know, let me know. But you know, it was, I appreciate that, you know, it's a. it is. it is not like. it's not a light talk, right. So I was also prepared for her to like, you know, take the time, she needed to get convinced for herself and to be sure for herself as well.
AMAKA: So that's kind of where things changed from my, my mindset and everything, the way I looked at him, kind of changed. And I was like, ‘ok, we need to work this thing and just see how and where it goes’. Of course, I was leaving the next day. And this was going to be a long distance relationship as well. So we kind of started talking, and started getting to know each other more, it was a little bit easier, it was a little bit easier, because the background was kind of there already, so it was more so trying to, you know, get to know Toby in, in that level, in that way. The more we talked, and the more I prayed as well, I started feeling that, ok, maybe all of this is how it was supposed to be, how I was supposed to meet Toby, and everything else. And I just started feeling like it was the one!
TOBY: I think my faith definitely plays a big part in our, in our relationship. And for me is also one of the key areas. One, I wanted someone who shared the same faith with me. And actually, I also want to say one who will also pray about, about something, because I do understand our limitations as as human beings, and God has been that thing that is kind of, for me, and for us actually, a kind of a steadfast trust and love that is just beyond us. And having that relationship with God, for me meant, meant everything you know, and, and sometimes it's just knowing that you can always talk to God and kind of get assurance and confidence and clarify things also that you couldn’t maybe fully figure out yourself.
So that for me played a big role, and I think it did play a big role for her as well, in making that decision. Even before I made the move, I really had to take some time to really pray about it and you know, seek... to kind of dig deep into it to really figure out if this is the right thing to do.
AMAKA: So we tried to meet up every three months or four months or whatever, as much as we could. So, I went in August, we talked for about two months, or three months trying to work this thing out. And in November, we got engaged.
TOBY: The families were very happy. And they were also friends, so things - it made things a lot easier for us if you can, if we can put it that way. And today also both families are still good friends. My brother was happy because he was the one that you know, brought the idea. So he was, was happy. But he also knew that I had to own it as well. If it was going to be anything.
AMAKA: Looking back now I'm just thinking girl, you were so naive, like you were totally naive, because he was always around me, but I didn't see him in that way. I didn't see him in that way. Although when you would come for Christmas, you know, like sometimes when you look at things, you know, retrospectively, you kind of start connecting the dots a little bit, you know, like looking back now I could see some connections, you know, back then, you know, we had pictures that maybe when we went to church, the Family Church here in Manchester, you know, we had pictures from like seven years ago that we took, and we're holding hands and I'm looking at those pictures. I'm like, ‘what, what was happening there?’
We had like, you know, jokey names for each other. And I remember, you know, one time when he came over from Denmark, we were talking at some point and we were holding hands, but I didn't really call any of those things, anything.
TOBY: Amaka actually moved to Denmark after our wedding. She was so gracious to do that. We lived in Denmark for - is it two or three years? I can't even remember how much time flies. But after a couple of years in Denmark, we decided to move back to the UK to be closer to family. Our faith is also a big part of the big decisions that we make in our life. We also felt that, you know, that was what God wanted us to do at that time. And we are happy we took the step.
MARIA: Equal Parts is produced by me, Maria Passingham.
Thank you so much Amaka & Toby for your time. If you want to learn more about them, you can follow their YouTube channel - just search for Amaka Toby TV, or find the link in the shownotes for this episode. There’s also a link there to buy the books they’ve both written! What a power couple.
Audio Network provided the music for this show, and
Today’s accompanying artwork comes from Sharna Neil, and I love how Sharna described her inspiration for the piece:
“They mentioned in the episode that they'd look back at old pictures and saw themselves holding hands. I thought this was a nice visual to capture, alongside the growing vines symbolising their increasing connection and interconnectedness over the years”. Just gorgeous.
You can find the piece on socials using the hashtag #EqualPartsPodcast or by visiting EqualPartsPodcast.co.uk
If you’ve been enjoying the love stories this season, I would really appreciate you sharing the show. If you can take a moment to send a link or a recommendation to just *one* other person, it would really help get the podcast out there. Thank you.
Next time… Finding love in Pluto’s heart .
CLARE: Well, we were both interested in the same things... we were particularly interested in the Pluto flyby that was happening.
RANDY: There was lots of anticipation amongst the nerd crowd.
CLARE: It was a really exciting thing for people who were interested in space especially it was in astronomy discussions on Twitter a lot.
RANDY: “Hey, how would you feel if I came visit you in a month or so?” and it's like… “All the way from England, just to see me?”.
Robert & Felipe
FELIPE: He was almost like, present with me all the time, and the feeling kept coming bigger and bigger, until we just told each other what we felt.
ROBERT: It's kind of eerie really, from this very day to that day in July 2017, there hasn't been a day when we haven't spoken.
MARIA: Welcome to Equal Parts, a series of true love stories, told by the couples themselves.
Today’s guests connected through their shared love of art and literature.
and at first the daily DMs, video calls, and voice notes made it easy to forget the distance between them.
So how did a Brit and a Brazilian end up together in France? Let’s find out.
ROBERT: My name is Robert. I recently completed my PhD in History of Art and English. I currently live in France. And I'm currently applying for postdoctoral funding in Brazil.
FELIPE: I'm Felipe, I'm from Brazil, and I'm an art historian. I'm currently doing my PhD in Art History in France, well... I'm doing it in Brazil, but I'm in France for a period abroad for my research.
ROBERT: We met in 2018. So we've been together for…
FELIPE: About two and a half years.
ROBERT: More than anything else, I would say that he's very kind, and very thoughtful.
FELIPE: very creative, and very intelligent and sensitive.
ROBERT: Very warm, and caring, combined with him being very intelligent, and someone who I can have very interesting conversations with.
FELIPE: He’s a very quiet person, although not with me, because we talk all the time [laughs]
ROBERT: Someone who I think has helped me to change for the better, has made me think more about myself. And yeah, someone who I've felt I've grown with.
FELIPE: I mean, we've always been quite similar since the beginning, and we've realised that as soon as we started speaking. But there's lots of things that have become more intense, in a way. I don't know, like, I think, you know, a, we've got more and more similar, even in terms of awkwardness sometimes [laughs]. Because, well, I guess, being in a relationship with a Brit increases that! And I'm from a region in Brazil, where people are also known for being a bit awkward.
I think I followed him on Instagram first. We're never quite sure, but I think I followed him first. Or rather, I saw some of his photos on my Explore feed on Instagram. And I liked them. And maybe he liked mine and followed me or I followed back or, I don't know, something like that.
ROBERT: We started following each other in the period, like the Christmas period 2016 to 2017, that kind of in-betweeny time and I, I sort of got a hint, I suppose because he would often, he would like my posts, practically all of them whenever I posted anything!
FELIPE: I just saw that he was also an Art History PhD student, at the time. So I remember seeing that and finding him really cool. Sometimes he would leave a comment.
ROBERT: And vice versa, actually, but we never actually spoke.
I, on my side, felt that guys can be quite creepy online. I didn't want to be presumptuous, or I didn't want to seem oh, yet another guy going into his DMs, etc. And because he was a very, very good looking guy. I wondered if that was the case. And so I actually didn't think I had much of a chance until I just decided, well, I'll just send him a message.
FELIPE: This one day in July, because I remember it being winter in Brazil, and it was a bit chilly, he replied to an Insta story of mine, where I was complaining about this evangelical guy at my gym, who was trying to convert me. So he replied to that. We started talking and we talked a lot about things that we liked, about what we did, about art history and books. And we talked a lot.
ROBERT: Seeing that he collected old photographs on, on his profile, that was something I found really interesting. And also the fact that he had, well has, a tattoo on his chest that's based on a design by a 19th century French artist who I loved, still do, called Gustave Doré. And it's an image from Dante's Divine Comedy. We obviously had some mutual interests.
So I sent the message to him in July. And, in essence, we spoke everything single day, after that every single day, it's kind of eerie really, from this very day to that day in July 2017, there hasn't been a day when we haven't spoken.
FELIPE: When we started talking, for a while, we kind of decided to be on friendly, only on friendly terms. Because, well, it was complicated. He was there, I was in Brazil. And so we didn't really want to immediately make it romantic. But we soon ended up like, because we talked so much ever since. After talking to him for maybe a week or even less, I talked to him on video for the first time.
ROBERT: I think on that first, just before that first occasion when we video chatted, because I think we did it, so soon, after we first started talking, I hadn't really had time to think about it. So I did treat it quite casually, it was still light outside, and so we could see each other clearly, I was just very, very intrigued. Because, you know, I'd seen his photos and just seen how good looking he is. And I don’t know, when you can see someone, who you have only seen in photos, there, even though it's on the other side of the screen, you see them moving and talking… You, you do get a better sense of them.
We'd actually sent each other audio recordings of our voices so that we could hear what we sounded like. And we sent each other recordings, reading poems that we liked, or extracts from novels. And I remember actually even just hearing his voice, I thought he had a lovely voice and a very nice accent. So that’s actually, yeah, something I really like about him is his voice. So we had already heard each other before we, we spoke on video,
FELIPE: He was almost like, present with me all the time. Because well had my phone. And he was basically like, someone was with me, in my hand, all the time [laughs]. But the feeling just kept coming bigger and bigger. Until we just told each other what we felt.
We talked to a lot on video. And after we realised we loved each other... We did it almost every day. And then and then it was different, because I mean, I was already supposed to come to France for a research trip. And I said, oh, I'm going to go to the UK so I can meet you and stuff. And we can do things, but also I have friends there.
But initially, I mean, I think I knew, when I said I wanted to do that,I knew why I wanted to do that, of course. But initially when we first decided I would go and see him, it was also just on friendly terms. So I was supposed, he said like, you can stay in the lounge, etc. and live in a shared house. Okay, then that was it. But this period of me thinking I was going to go there and sleep in the lounge was very short, because soon I knew there was going to be something else.
ROBERT: [Sighs] Oh that day was such a lovely day. So he came on the Eurostar from Paris to London. And then he got the train from London to Oxford. And so I went to meet him at the train station in Oxford, very ‘Brief Encounter’.
FELIPE: I was, I was a bit nervous. And Robert probably was a bit nervous too.
ROBERT: Very very nervous, in a sort of giddy way, just hoping that everything you've seen sort of on a video and all the messages we had exchanged, whether meeting in person would feel the same, be the same. And I remember, I realised his train had arrived and all these people were coming through the barriers. All of a sudden, he turned the corner. And there he was. And it felt so both strange and lovely. That someone we'd only seen in videos was just suddenly there.
FELIPE: It felt natural, because we already talked so much that it was not one of those situations when you meet someone in person, and if it feels awkward. I think immediately as we met, we hugged and kissed. It felt very intense and nice. It almost feels like a surprise and like oh, is this finally happening? Almost like I was … being electrocuted? Electrocuted I mean in a good way, can I say that.
Being physically close to him felt really nice. And it felt right. Yeah, it was like this perfect hug and kiss, from the very beginning.
And we got a taxi to his house, and for hours I forgot, completely I forgot to message my family and message my friends, or anyone. So my mum later was, was quite worried, especially because she knew I was going to meet someone I knew from the internet. I think she was scared, maybe I don't know, she was quite worried because they had completely forgotten.
ROBERT:. And then basically, he was originally only going to stay for one week in Oxford. But by the end of that week, we obviously had gotten so used to being with each other, and we were just so enjoying it, that it just filled us with dread, the thought of having, him having to go home.
So he actually, on the morning that he was supposed to leave, he actually phoned up his airline, and changed his flight to a week later. So that we got to stay together for another week in Oxford. And I remember that morning, just the feeling of relief. And we'd been, the week he had been there, we'd been rushing around doing quite a lot of stuff. So it was, we knew that we had this week where we could just be a bit more relaxed and do what we wanted to do and just enjoy being together, before he had to go back to Brazil.
We started living together, about a year ago now. There are certain things you only know about a person when you live with them. There are these periods in a relationship, particularly when you're an international couple, when things will be a bit more stressful, because obviously, there are things you have to consider which couples who are from the same country don't have to think about, but you realise that those are things which eventually, you'll sort them out. And you can find ways to get around them or get through them. And that doing those things, helps to strengthen your bond, essentially.
FELIPE: Well, first thing, I didn't expect to be getting married in France in the middle of a pandemic. And now here I am doing this, you know, it is quite crazy, if you think about it.
ROBERT: We came to France because it was where Felipe came to do his PhD research. And it's somewhere that he's always been interested in and always loved. And he learned French when he was very young. So I, I came to join him here and you can love a place, but there are still things which do make life difficult. And the language, for me particularly because I don't still fluently speak French has been difficult. But fortunately, Felipe is fluent in French. So we've, we've got through all right. But there are, yeah, there are those difficulties, which is why eventually we would like to settle in a country where one of us is a national citizen, because it does make things a bit easier.
FELIPE: We're already going to get married in a month's time, basically. And after that, we go into Brazil in December. And well who knows after this where we might end up? But normally we should stay in Brazil, for two years or so and move to the UK. Because, well I guess it is only fair, after living in France and Brazil, all because of me, that we go to the UK.
ROBERT: I feel like I've gotten to know not just Felipe himself, but also, I've gotten to know another country. Brazil isn't somewhere that I had ever - I didn't know much about it, before I knew Felipe and I had obviously never been there and I didn't think I ever would. It seemed so far away. And besides getting to know him, there was also discovering this really fascinating country and the culture there, [sighs] ah the food! The amazing food! And the art and, and the literature as well. That's something during our early conversations that we talked a lot about, we kind of exchanged things and he told me a lot about Brazilian artists and authors who I might like... and also the language as well, which I'm still, still just starting to get to grips with, but Portuguese is a beautiful language.
FELIPE: It's very hard not to learn Portuguese when you are in Brazil as a foreign person, because most people don't speak English so you're kind of forced to learn it.
ROBERT: It does feel now somewhere that I've gotten to know better and I do feel like it is home there. I have family there now and yeah, it's, it's a nice feeling.
MARIA: Equal Parts is produced by me, Maria Passingham.
Robert and Felipe, thank you so much for taking part in the show. And, congratulations! This gorgeous couple were married in October and recently moved to Brazil. May you have many joyful years together.
Thanks also go to Audio Network for the music in this podcast.
For every episode of Equal Parts, I ask an artist to create an impression of the story.
This time, Rosie Shead - aka RosiePaperArt - used intricate layers of paper and card to capture the essence of Robert & Felipe’s love story.
You can find the gallery of all artwork so far, at EqualPartsPodcast.co.uk
Also on the website is a transcript for every episode of the show. Accessibility!
If you’re enjoying Equal Parts Season 2 so far, please consider becoming a Patron to support the show. You can find a link to my Patreon in the shownotes for this episode. Thank you.
Next week... Suddenly seeing what was in front of you all along.
TOBY: I was not really interested in just dating or you know, just being girlfriend, especially also for her, so I had to be sure of what I wanted, as well before even making any move in that direction
AMAKA: Do you know what if you're so serious about this, I'll just take this as a holiday. I said ‘ok fine, I’m gonna come visit you’.
TOBY: Let’s say I was like 80% convinced, it was during the visit that I kind of, became more sure that, you know this is what I want.
Graham & Jules
JULES: Casually, he just said, ‘would you like to go out for dinner? Let's go out.’ And I literally ran across the dance floor to my friends. I'm like, ‘give me a pen, give me a pen. Somebody! Gotta be a pen, he wants my number, give me a pen!’
GRAHAM: I still have that piece of paper. And on the one side, it's the message from the Royal International Hotel. And on the back, it says Julie H - 70650.
MARIA: Welcome to Equal Parts, a series of true love stories, told by the couples themselves.
Today’s tale is one of coincidences and giddy young lovers.
But, before we get into their story, I want to quickly tell you about another podcast I’ve been working on.
It’s called Hope This Finds Me Well, and it’s about writing to our future selves, and reflecting on our past selves.
I’m one of three hosts for the show, and we speak to people who have recently received a letter they sent themselves years before, to ask if life turned out as they expected.
I have so much more I want to say about this show, but I’ll be sharing a full episode with you soon, and there’s a little teaser at the end of today’s episode, so keep listening past the credits!
But now, let’s get to our couple.
Brought together by chance and mischief,
Graham and Jules learned just how small the world is, despite growing up on opposite sides of it.
Quick head’s up, there is one minor swear in this story.
GRAHAM: Hello, my name is Graham. I was born in 1964. And I met Julie in 1986.
JULES: So my name is Jules and I'm married to Graham and we live in Hitchin.
GRAHAM: We've been married for 34 years. And I, I met Julie on the other side of the world. Even though it turned out she lived in the same street as me.
JULES: I would describe Graham as a dreamer. Big ideas, big adventures, just fearless. Just the absolute opposite to me.
GRAHAM: She's very funny. I think she's one of the funniest people I've ever met. She's lovely. Julie is lovely.
JULES: When we met, that was the first thing. He was just like a lightning bolt. I was 17. And very quiet, very shy, it was a very small town. And from the minute he looked at me, it was like, he was holding up a little mirror to say, this is who I see... changed my own opinion of myself really, weirdly. Because I'd always, always thought I was shy and quiet and invisible. And, no, I wasn't.
GRAHAM: I like to dramatise it and so we met at a wedding I gatecrashed.
At the age of 18, my parents emigrated to New Zealand. And when I was 21, they came home, and I stayed because I liked it there. And I was living in digs in a place called Whangarei, New Zealand. And I was a pipe fitter on an oil refinery construction site. And most of my friends similar age to me, worked on the site. And I had like, really good friends like Kevin Hibbertt and Cockney Dave, but you kind of... anyone who was a Brit on the site, you kind of knew. And there was a bloke called Tony Evans, who was from Essex, and Tony was getting married. So we were all going to the wedding, but none of us had invitations. But we went to the chur- we didn't just go to the nighttime bit, but we went to the church and the service!
JULES: My friend Loretta, and I had been invited to a wedding reception, a friend's wedding reception. It was the first time going out to something like that, I was only 17, it was very exciting. I felt like a grown up, rushed out and bought this gorgeous red dress and got all dressed up. And it was just the most exciting day, we took all day to get ready.
GRAHAM: And I see a girl in a red dress, blonde, beautiful girl in a red dress on the dance floor with her friend Loretta, who was in a blue dress. And I said to Kevin, we're gonna dance with those two, you're taking the one in the blue, I'm gonna dance with the one in the red dress.
JULES: Loretta was like, ‘oh, God’ [sighs] you know? ‘Who are these guys?’ And er, clearly didn’t fancy the one she was stuck with, literally stuck with. And she was this beautiful girl and I remember thinking ‘they’re both going to want to dance with Loretta’.
GRAHAM: I went over and started dancing with her and introduced myself.
JULES: So we had a, a bit of a groove, and it was all very nice, and he was super cute and really smiley and then we got the cringe moment, the music... [laughs].. the slow song started. So we did the classic freeze on the dance floor. What do you do? So we kind of hung on to each other and swayed around for a little bit and did the awkward slow dance thing. Yeah, had a little bit of a kiss, had our first kiss. And I was like, wow, this guy's amazing.
GRAHAM: And then afterwards, we got talking. And this was February the 22nd 1986. I'm 21. She's 17, which did freak me out a little bit.
JULES: It just, just couldn't, couldn't get enough of each other, talking and talking, and talking at 100 miles an hour. And he wanted to tell me so much about our adventures and what he'd like to do with his life, and his ideas, and he had just had so many big ideas. And I was like just completely swept away with it all. And we talked and talked and then he just casually, he just said, ‘would you like to go out for dinner? Let's- let's- let's go out.’
GRAHAM: Can I have your phone number?
JULES: And I was like, ‘oh yeah’ you know, trying to act really, really casual.. ‘Yes, er, ok, just, just a minute.’
GRAHAM: And she said, ‘yeah, have you got a pen?’ And I said ‘no’.
JULES: And I literally ran across the dance floor to my friends. I'm like, ‘give me a pen, give me a pen. Somebody! Gotta be a pen, he wants my number, give me a pen!’
GRAHAM: And while she ran away to get a pen, I'm looking for a bit of paper. So I opened up my wallet and there was a note in the wallet that had, a few weeks earlier me and Hibbert had stayed in a hotel in Auckland, and another mate of ours James Rio had wanted to contact us and he left a message for us at the reception. And it was the piece of paper with the message for Mr Hibbert to call Mr. Rio!
Got a pen, ran back and wrote as clearly - my name and my number - as clearly as I could, so he had no way of not knowing how to get hold of me.
GRAHAM: I still have that piece of paper. And I've put it in a little plastic sleeve thing here. And on the one side, it's the message from the Royal International Hotel. And on the back, it says Julie H 70650.
But it turns out that although I thought that was the first time I'd met her, I had actually met her about an hour before, but didn't know!
JULES: There were a lot of English guys outside. And they were decorating, shall we say, the wedding car.
GRAHAM: Tying tin cans on the back of this white Hillman Hunter, and drawing on the side of the doors with lipstick, and... it's not very tasteful. what we were doing. Anyway, we ran out of lipstick, I don't know where we'd got this lipstick from, but we'd run out, and two girls walked up -
JULES: One cocky little guy, sparks out-
GRAHAM: ‘‘Scuse me, girls, can we have your lipstick?’
JULES: Trying to get us to join in, or help out-
GRAHAM: And they basically told us to get lost... or something.
JULES: So we got all haughty and strutted off in our high heels and went into the room.
GRAHAM: And she was one of them. But I didn',t and it was to be fair, it was dark. So I didn't really see her properly until you know, she was on the dance floor.
But the crazy thing is, you know I said to her while we were chatting, and while I was falling for her, I said ‘where abouts in town do you live?’ and she said ‘Tikipunga’ and I said ‘no way’. I said ‘before my parents left and went back to Britain, we lived in Tikipunga’. I said ‘where abouts?’ and she said ‘Tapper Crescent.’ And I said ‘we lived at 56 Tapper Crescent’. She says ‘I live at 23’. And so she, she came from the same street. And our house was right next to a public footpath and Julie used to walk down that public footpath every day on the way to school. And my bedroom had stickers on the window from Piccadilly Radio in Manchester, and Radio City in Liverpool. And she used to walk past that every day and go ‘wonder what that's all about?’.
We get to like the end of the evening, and she says’ so you live in Otaika now’ I says ‘yes’. She says ‘how you stay getting home?’ I said ‘I'll probably just get a taxi’, ‘cause you know, I'm drinking, I didn't bring a car, I didn’t own a car back then. She said, ‘well, my mate Loretta will give you a lift home.’ So like we'd already kissed. But we got a left home in the back of Loretta’s mini. And as we drove out of the car park, I looked out the window and I turned to Julie and I went ‘oh shit’. And she said ‘what's the problem’? And the bride and groom had left earlier. And the car was still there. It wasn't Tony's car! Some perfectly innocent person had gone to somebody's wedding in a white Hillman Hunter. And I still to this day don't know whose car we did that to.
Then the next day, I called her up on this number 70650 which is one of the few phone numbers I can even remember.
JULES: And we went out every night, from then on, till we got married. It was a, it was like a crash crash bang, for both of us. It was just like, this is, this is it. No one for a split second ever - and because it was only 18 months later, we were married - no one at any point said ‘oh, you sure?’ You know ‘you're a bit young’, you know, no one ever needed to say that. We became instant friends. And instant fancy. It was just easy. It was so easy. It was, we’re so lucky. So lucky.
So, first date that we went on was in a Chinese restaurant, a little hometown, not a lot of restaurants, not a lot of choice. It was pouring with rain, and my father was going to drop me off. And right at the last minute a friend of mine pulled up in his car and he says ‘oh I'll take you. Come on jump in.’ And so this guy parked outside and he's like, there you go and as we pulled up Graham was already at the door - standing in the doorway. waiting. My friend is like ‘is that him?’ I was like ‘yeah yeah’, he's like, ‘he looks alright. Looks good. He's early. I like it.’ You know? So yeah, ran and it was at classic movie moment - running in the rain to the doorway. And he was standing there and we kind of kind of crashed into each other a little bit and it was like, ‘oh, hi!’, you know, it's like, kind of a moment.
I just remember it was just, continuing to realise that considering we were from different such different places, different families, different sort of backgrounds, that we had so much that we agreed on, you know, things we liked and things we wanted to do. And I was like, ‘oh, you think that? oh, I think that!’ you know, it was that, kind of like finding someone that was just like your little buddy, it was just like, we just never been apart.
I do remember, not long into the relationship. Graham, rented a car I was like, ‘wow!’, my family, we'd never rented a car in our lives, we'd always had our old bangers and you know, cheap cars, and so we rented, he rented a car, so we could go for a drive all around the bays, and I could show him all around my home and hometown, and it was like a scorching hot, because February is hot in New Zealand, and we drove around. And we've got lots of photos of us in the sunshine, and the beach, and driving, and it was a bit of a road trip day and some really cheesy pictures of you know, lying on the grass looking, you know, looking off into the distance and you know, lots of [laughs] just unbearably romantic, just, just, just, we were we just couldn't get enough of the romance really.
GRAHAM: But the thing with the construction job is they end. I knew I was going to be out of work. And I'd already planned to come back home to Britain to visit my parents, and then go back to New Zealand, I was always going back to New Zealand. And you know, I said to Julie, I said, you know, I've got this trip that I'm going to do and I've got a couple of mates from England flying out and we're going to have two weeks, we've rented a car, we're going to drive around Florida together the three of us, and we're going to do that and then I'm going to carry on to to the UK. And then I'll come home, and I don't know how long I'll be, I just, you know, when I've had enough I'll come back. Because I didn't have any work commitments, I had this massive redundancy - to me at my age - this massive redundancy payment paid out. I was just going to go and have some fun, have this great holiday and then go back to New Zealand and then you know, look for work and, and carry on.
And the weird thing is, while we were dating, you know from that February up until like the May/June, I think it was June, I took the flight, I would always refer to Julie as the lady in red because she was in this red dress when I met her. Well, I get to Britain, and the Chris de Burgh
song is out. And this is song called The Lady in Red. And it's a big hit. And it's on the radio all the time. It's on every jukebox in every pub I went and it was just, there was no escaping her! She was you know, calling me back.
JULES: We hadn’t been together very long and he went away, and came back with no money, no job, no car, nowhere to live, just came back to be with me. Very good for my ego, but was a very steep lesson in what love is. Because up until then, you know it was just dating. And when that sort of thing started to be on the horizon - he was going to come back and, going to go through some really tough times just so he could be back. It was like wow, this is, this is what real love is like, this is, I need to, I need to be sure. I can't let him come back if he's, if I'm not sure.
And Graham, while he was away, he wrote a letter - very old school - wrote a letter every single day. I've still have them. He wrote me songs. I have quite a few cassettes - cassettes! - of songs he’d written, Julie and Julianne, which is my name.
GRAHAM [singing]: ‘Julianne, didn’t know what I was looking for… Now I found you, now I'm sure…’
That was a, that was the tune and I recorded it on a cassette. And we went out to a restaurant. And I told her I'd written a song about her. And I asked them to put it on, and they played it in the restaurant on the cassette.
JULES: So getting letters... so they would arrive in groups and - Graham will probably cringe at this - but I used to sit and read them with my mother! With, with, because they were really romantic and you know, when you write a letter every day, it's not all romance. A lot of it is everyday things and I was really getting to know him. And I was getting to know him at home with his family, he was like in his own hometown. So he was talking about things and I was still learning about him. So the romance and the connection didn't stop while he was away. So it was like ok, I'm sure. I'm sure he's, he's the one.
GRAHAM: We used to go for days out in the car, and we used to go to the Bay of Islands, which is only about an hour north of Whangarei. It's beautiful up there. And in Paihia, which is kind of the main town in the Bay of Islands. There's a stone church right on the waterfront, which is very unusual in New Zealand. It's a very young country and most of the, most of the buildings in the area are made of wood. To find anything made of stone is very unusual, but there's a stone church! It's more like a chapel. It's very small. It's called St Paul's in Paihia, and we will walking past it one day, and I said to Julie I said, ‘be nice to get married in there’. She said, ‘oh, yeah’, I said, ‘yeah, but I bet you have to be, you know, a Christian for a start! Or, you know, a member of the parish or a regular attendee of the congregation.’ She said, ‘yeah, so that wouldn't happen’. I said, ‘well, look, there's a number on the board here. When we get back home - because there's no mobile's back then - when we get back home, we'll, we'll give them a call. And I'll just ask, worst thing they can say is they'll say no.’
Now I was brought up in Great Sankey near Warrington. And a lot of my friends were from Penketh, which is very close to Great Sankey. And just next to that is Widnes. Anyway, I rang up the this number and the Reverend answered the phone, and it was a lady from Widnes. And I said, you know, ‘we've seen the church and you know, we'd like to get married there, what are the chances?’ and she said, ‘come and see me.’ So I went and saw her and we had a chat. And she said, ‘yeah, fine.’ So not only did I go to the other side of the world to find the girl from the same street, we ended up getting married on the other side of the world by a lady who used to live within five miles from where I grew up. So it was all, it was all meant to be, wasn't it?
JULES: Do I believe in fate? I don't actually. I just think it was just a moment in the chaos, I just think it was just luck. We've told the story a million times and people say you know, it sounds like you're, you know, laying it on a bit thick. But this is exactly how it was like, you know, these things - this is how it happened. I have very bad photos to prove it!
MARIA: Equal Parts is produced by me, Maria Passingham.
Thank you so much Jules and Graham for your time, and thanks also to Audio Network for the music you heard in this episode.
Each episode of Equal Parts is transformed into a piece of art, and there’s a gallery at EqualPartsPodcast.co.uk where you can view them all.
This week, PollyDraws created a gorgeous illustration to capture Graham and Jules’ story.
You can also use the #EqualPartsPodcast hashtag to find the artwork on socials, and leave a comment.
If you want to read or search for a specific moment in this story, you can find a transcript at EqualPartsPodcast.co.uk
Next time, an insta-connection, a forever love.
ROBERT: We sent each other recordings, reading poems that we liked, or extracts from novels. I thought he had a lovely voice and a very nice accent.
FELIPE: We kind of decided to be only friendly, only on friendly terms. Because, well, it was complicated. He was there, and I was in Brazil, and so we didn't really want to immediately make it romantic.
ROBERT: All of a sudden, he turned the corner, and there he was, and it felt so both strange and lovely, that someone we'd only seen in videos was just was suddenly there. As I said, strange but also lovely at the same time.
MARIA: I’m back. As promised, here’s a little taste of what you can hear on my new podcast: Hope This Finds Me Well.
This clip is from the first episode, where we spoke to Marie about her family, finances, and life purpose. The ‘we’ there, is me, and my co-hosts Sophie and Steph.
First, you’ll hear Marie read the letter she sent to herself a couple of years’ ago, and then part of our conversation that followed.
MARIE: This is a letter from September 2 2018.
Dear future me, this one is public. So I'm censoring a little bit. It's been almost 80 letters to date and over five years of writing to the future. There have been a lot of dreams lost and realised over the years, heartache and love with the same man, wonderful kids and beautiful grandkids. For the readers of these anonymous letters - a little about me, us. Today, I'm 50. But will be 51 in December. I'm a very young 50, most people can't believe that, or that I have three kids and six grandkids. So to me, I'm not old. But I do feel like I should know what I want with my life. And I don't.
When this letter is received, our main goal is to have all of our debt paid, as well as an emergency fund. Next goal: a paid for house. You have four years. Oh, and sex at 50 does exist. It's just different, better.
SOPHIE: Is debt something you think about a lot? Is that why you want it in your letter? Or was that to like hold you accountable? Like, I need to be debt free by this day, so I'm gonna do it because I'm having it in writing.
MARIE: That was holding me accountable. But I, we have passed many dates by, because for the longest time, my husband was not on board. He thought we'll be in debt forever. There's no reason to do this. So it took, I honestly was on this journey since 2004. And I figured out how many years we need to be debt free. And that time came and went, and came and went, and came and went. Because as I'm trying to do things to get out of debt, my husband's buying a new car, buying a new motorcycle, you know…
SOPHIE: Very different ways of thinking there..
MARIE: Exactly so, so then in that case, you can't get out of debt because you're still, you're just filling one hole with another. But... we are debt free!
MARIE: We are! I do have to say that it's my husband who helped us finally get to this point because when he finally saw, we might really do this - and as soon as he was able - it didn't happen until this year, as soon as he was able to start working overtime, he has been working 10, 20 hours overtime every single week for a few months. So if he wouldn't have done it, we still would have been debt free, it just would have been a few months later.
STEPH: But in order for him to see that future, he needed you for 16 years seeing it for him. Yeah, right. Which is really a summary of I think all hetero relationships in my like point of view, but like, yeah, I mean, like you saw the goal, and were encouraging him for 16 years, and then he finally was like, ‘ok, I'm starting to see results. I will get on board.’ And I mean, yeah, props to him. But also kudos to you for being able to keep that goal in your mind for 16 years.
MARIA: I think it also brings out another part of your letter, like, even more sort of stark, erm starkness, sure. You know, you talk about being with the same man for a long time, and sort of, you know, good times and bad times it’s really powerful that like that, you know, money is a huge issue in people's marriages. And, that was not big enough for you know, anything bad to happen to you guys. It's very sweet that there's obviously enough love there to ride those waves.
MARIE: That is absolutely true. And the money thing is one of the easier things we've been through.
And we've been together for 31 years, so…
MARIE: Thank you. We always say it feels like forever, and it seems like just yesterday. Because we, he's the only man that ,I to me that I've ever been with, and he feels the same way. But yet, it wasn't 31 years of drudgery. It was... I mean, we did definitely have our ups and downs. And, and there were probably a few times we could have gotten a divorce. But, um, we love each other. So we work through it.
SOPHIE: Oh, my God. And er, the sex at 50’s not so bad.
MARIE: It is not. No, it's better. Because you, you, you know each other so well. You know the likes, you know, the dislikes... I mean, it's it's all it's mind, body and soul.
MARIA: Want to hear the rest of Marie’s wisdom? The full episode will be in your feed soon,
and there’s four other episodes out already if you want to binge the season so far.
Just search for Hope This Finds Me Well in your podcast app, or find the link in the shownotes.
Tash & Marthe
TASH: It was that movie moment, the sun was literally shining directly to her, and her eyes were like ka-ding!
MARTHE: I was so happy when she was sitting next to me, and our legs were touching, and I was just super aware of everything.
TASH: And there was definitely energy between us.
MARTHE: And I was like ‘Ok, Marthe, just kiss her. I have to do it or it will not happen.’
MARIA: Welcome to Equal Parts, Season 2! A series of true love stories, told by the couples themselves.
If you’re new to the show, there’s 8 romantic tales already out, just waiting to be devoured. You can lose yourself in the peak district with Davide & Nick, bond over a jukebox with Becky & Jay, or renew your faith in dating apps with Lucy & Ellie, and Liam & Jess.
If you’re a returning listener, welcome back.
This season we’re ignoring geography and traveling around the globe each week.
For today’s season opener, it’s fair Holland where we lay our scene. And Bali. And London.
Our first couple, Tash and Marthe are currently navigating finding a forever home amid a global pandemic, and together run Breaking The Distance,
an LGBTQ+ visibility blog and podcast about loving and living apart…. And then suddenly being together 24/7.
MARTHE: Hi I'm Marthe and I am from Holland. I'm 29 years old, and I work as an oncology nurse and I’ve been with Tash for almost two years.
TASH: I am Tash, I am one half of Breaking the Distance. My other half is Marthe. She is my Dutch half actually. So I, as you can hear from the accent, am based in the UK, in London, and Marthe is from Holland originally.
MARTHE: I definitely changed because of the relationship. I was working as a nurse, I have my own apartment and I had a really like, in a way comfortable life. I have my social network, it's all very safe. And when I met Tash, I was really like, in the beginning I was sort of in awe of her because she was like a freelancer and she was working as a performer, but she was also a personal trainer, and she was also doing this and then she was doing that. So like ‘oh, you can actually do more than one thing’. And I was like, ‘well, what would I like to do? I like to write, I like yoga. Ok, what are my dreams?’ and it really inspired me.
And also she's super supportive of those things. And she's also super positive and no matter what happens she would like, you know, see the good side of things, and of people.
TASH: Marthe is incredibly funny, an absolute perfectionist, incredibly kind, very, very sexy.
MARTHE: I would describe her as very open, spontaneous, funny, and the best smile ever.
TASH: She's like, ‘she's really sarcastic’ is what she'll say about me, for sure.
MARTHE: So when we met, we met in Bali two years ago, and I was a solo traveller. And she was as well. And when I met her, I felt like ‘oh my god, I just made a friend’. That's, that's what I said - I looked at my messages later to my friends, like what I said about her - and I was just really happy to see her. She was just very friendly, just very chatty.
TASH: So I was actually in the middle of ending a relationship. I was very much wanting to be single. Whilst ultimately I do want to meet somebody, not right now, was how I felt... probably up until like the day that we met. I was in that, in that headspace. So yeah, it's kind of even more ridiculous that we ended up being together forever.
MARTHE: So I go away every year around January to a warm country. And I just broke up with a guy actually, the beginning of January, we have been on and off for nine months, and I was so over and I was like, ‘yeah, I don't want to see you anymore’. And I already booked a trip that I was going to travel alone, I was in my head for already a year. And I wanted to go somewhere that was safe to travel for women. And I've been to Thailand, and I was like I want to, I want to go somewhere else. So yeah, Bali was the perfect place because I want to surf. And then my idea was to see more of Indonesia as well.
TASH: I had gone to Thailand first and I met my then girlfriend, who it was very, very rocky. And I wasn't in a very good place. I was, I think, really coming to terms with the fact that this isn't the relationship I wanted. So I left her and she went back home to the UK. I left that part of Thailand and carried on travelling and we essentially went on a break.
I then flew to Bali. That was my one stop in travelling that I knew I was going to go to, everything else was sort of unplanned. But Bali was definitely planned. And I'd already booked my accommodation there. So I arrived in Bali, technically on a break. And Marthe actually arrived the same day. And we met that day, had a very brief general getting to know each other chit chat, and thought nothing more of it.
MARTHE: I was like, holding on to her like, ‘oh my god, I made a friend here in Bali. And she's really cool.’ And when I got over that first step, I was like, ‘oh my god, she's also really beautiful. Wow, this girl's amazing.’ Then I already had a mini crush on her. So that was also because she was like super confident. She looked just really cool. And she gave that impression that she was just like, I can face this world and I’m this really cool woman.
TASH: I'm not a lesbian that assumes every woman I meet is gay. So my assumption was that she was straight.
MARTHE: Quite soon, I had a feeling she might be gay. So I remember I think it was on the second day. I just had this jolt like ‘oh my god, like she might be a lesbian’ and then I found her even more interesting. I was like, ‘oh my god, this is so cool.’ And then I guess because I don't really look like the stereotypical lesbian, I think she didn't know that for me but she was in our way a bit flirtatious also with our text messages and she would like help me out, and bring me to my spa, and because I was new to the place, and she wasn't... I just didn't know what to think about it because she was also very friendly to everyone. So I was like, well, maybe it's just because she's just like that.
TASH: That first conversation, I can tell you, literally the exact details of it is gone and got a burrito from my favourite Mexican place in Bali, and got back to the accommodation. And it was evening It was dark already. So it's like 8:30/9 o'clock. And anybody who's seen pictures of Marthe, you'll notice that the first thing that you notice about her is her blue eyes, piercing blue eyes. Now it’s 8pm at night, it's super dark, I don't see those eyes. So all I see is just you know, nice looking Dutch girl, brown hair, very sweet, really interesting accent.
Yeah, and the conversation, I remember there was another guy there. And the place that we're staying at has very few guests, I think it can hold about 16 maximum, but often sits around 10 to 12. And this guy was quite a bit older. And he was a bit awkward. And they had been talking and I kind of came into the conversation, and I'm a performer, so I'm not afraid to just introduce myself and be like, ‘hey, what's up?’. And I kind of felt like I was a little bit saving half from that conversation. And then we just carried on between us, and we had surfing the next day at like 6am. So it's not like we could really stay up late.
To be honest, the first real conversation that stood out to me was, we were sitting having lunch and the tradition at this place was for everybody to sit on a long table, and we all have lunch together, and they bring food, and it's like family style. And afterwards, we were sat around talking, a couple of us, and this place has a lot of - women tend to stay there because it's really safe. And as a solo female traveller, you want someone that feels safe and secure, and it just naturally attracts that kind of a traveller. So obviously, you know, girls sitting around, what, what's the main conversation like relationships, who you're seeing blah, blah, blah. And one of the girls are talking about guy that she was seeing and how they've been sleeping together, and he hasn't really texted her since she's been away. And we're all giving advice and chipping in. And so then it led me to be like, ‘well, actually, I'm kind of on a break. And this is my situation.’ And I was really open and honest.
MARTHE: She was saying that she had an ex girlfriend, and I was very subtle. I was like, ‘oh, my ex girlfriend lalalalala…’
TASH: Huh. That was really subtle... the way you told me about your girl friend there. Ok, I see what you're doing. You're trying to let me know [whispers] ‘I’m a lesbian too’!
MARTHE: I was like, oh my god. Yes! I thought I knew. But yeah, that was like, amazing.
TASH: And then I sort of really then properly looked at her. And that was the moment I saw the blue eyes. She was like, the way she was sitting was, it was that movie moment, the sun was literally shining directly to her, and her eyes were like ka-ding! And Marthe has really long eyelashes too. And I was like, ‘oh, she's kind of cute. She's obviously interested in women. Does that mean she's interested in me? I don't know, whatever, I'm just gonna… No! Tash don't even get into that you're still in one like, calm yourself.’ So yeah, that was probably the first real like, click moment, I guess.
MARTHE: We were in the beginning the two solo travellers. So we were just hanging out loads, we went everywhere together, we went for dinner everywhere. And I just remember I just wanted to be close to her all the time. Like, I was so happy when she was sitting next to me and our legs were touching, and I was just super aware of everything. And then we went out for drinks, and it was all very like, flirtatious, but also, I just didn't know if she was into me. I was like, ‘ok, I just want to be her friend, and I don't want to make things complicated. I am single, I'm in Bali, and I want to have this travel experience for myself. So I don't want to fall in love!’ That's what I said to everyone when I left for that trip, like, ‘oh, this is going to be my trip, it’s going to be my year and I'm not going to fall in love. And it's going to be the best. It's just going to be all about me, myself, and I.’
I also did not want to make things complicated for us because we were having this great friendship, but once you cross that line, then you crossed it and you can't go back. So yeah, I remember, I really wanted to kiss her that evening. And that didn't happen. And then I was also confused. So I was just like,’ ok, just let it go, friendship is beautiful.’
TASH: My girlfriend that I was on a break with, we arranged to have a call which was essentially like a breakup conversation. So I was in a really weird headspace when Marthe and I met, because I am also kind of traditional in some senses. So once that had ended whilst there was definite chemistry between myself and Marthe, I felt very guilty about that, you know, like it feels a bit - if feels like there should be some lag time between, from one to the next and it felt a bit disrespectful and I really pushed against it for, for a little while. Just as I tried to figure out how I felt about that. You know, going away to Thailand with one girlfriend and potentially coming back with another just didn't feel right. And I wanted to respect that relationship. So yeah, it was a bit confusing... It was a lot confusing in those first couple of weeks, for sure.
MARTHE: From there, the more time we spend together, the more I fell in love with her. And it's only in a few days, but remember that we’re together all the time, we're surfing together. So it's not like you have an evening, a date night, and then you see each other next week. We're spending so much time together, and we're talking, and you're in this amazing place, and it's all very beautiful. So yeah, you get to know each other quite quickly.
TASH: Bali kind of does that to people. It sort of makes everyone, you know you're away from home, you're away from everybody you know, you're travelling, it's a bit whimsical. So I'm also very aware of that.
MARTHE: Even till the last moment I thought ‘is she really into me?’ because, I don't know, like we’re holding hands sometimes and touchy feeling, like being super flirtati[ous]... But until the moment that we kissed, I was not sure.
TASH: There was an event like one of the girls, it was her birthday that evening, and we were all going out for dinner. And I got there and there was, the only spot at the table left is next to Marthe. And it was one of those places where you will sit on the floor, really low tables. And we're like sitting next to each other, and we're very like close and legs are touching and all that kind of thing. And afterwards, I said about going to a bar, I was really just up for going out and not getting crazy, but just, like the night doesn't have to end at 9pm guys. And she was really up for it as well. She later said to me that it was basically anything that I had suggested she would have gone along with!
So we headed over to a bar called Pretty Poison, and it was really cool, I'd never been there before. And it looks like a, just a generic cement building from the outside. And you walk in: sofas everywhere, there was a band, and a bar, and then you walk through and it opens out into what is an old swimming pool that is actually a skateboarding bowl. And there's all these skateboarders and everyone sitting around like drinking- it was the coolest thing, we were like oh my god I feel like we’ve stepped into an alternate universe.’ And we hung out there that night. And it was like a really cool experience, and then we ended up on one of the sofas and there was definitely energy between us.
And I was like, ‘ok, Marthe, just kiss her, do it.’ And because I'm used that, for someone else to take the first step. And that was not happening. So I was like, ‘ok, I have to do it or else it will not happen’. Er yeah, that was a very interesting experience for me.
TASH: In the couple of days beforehand. We had both been really honest about our previous relationships and our relationship history, way more honest than you would with somebody on a first date. Because we hadn't been in that headspace for the first sort of 48 hours. But we had been with each other a lot in that 48 hours, you shared a lot of your, just life just in general, what you do, what your job is, who your family are. So it's like, yeah it’s like that high school style relationship where, because you're together so much like a week is like a year. So it kind of changed the perspective. Like even when we talk about it now, we talk about the things that we were discussing. We’re like ‘no! That was only four days? We'd only known each other for four days? What?’ So yeah, it was already quite deep, by that point.
MARTHE: We have all this time to get to know each other. But also, I remember very vividly that I didn't want to think about what happens next. I was like, I want to live in the moment. I want to live in today, and right now. Because my friends and my family were messaging me ‘be careful, don't fall in love’. Because I've been in a long distance relationship before, and it's very challenging. And I was like, ‘I don't want to think about what happens when we're back in Europe. I just want to enjoy this moment.’ And that's also what I said to her. But yeah, of course, I was also madly in love. So yeah, I was like, ‘I will deal with that later.’ And that was amazing, because Tash was, I think a little bit more in her head about it. Also, because she just came out of a relationship. And now she met me. So yeah, that changed things for her. And I was just like, ‘we're having fun, just let it go’. That kind of vibe. Yeah, it was just a perfect place to fall in love, really.
TASH: We were actually both supposed to leave that place after a week of that resort. And we independently kept extending without kind of like, I'd go down to reception. I'm like, ‘Hi I'd like to extend’ and then Marthe would go and they'd be like, ‘oh, Tash just extended’. And she's like ‘what?’, and then it kind of kept happening like every couple of days.
And actually, before anything had happened before us, like in that very first 24 hours of knowing each other, we had both said like, ‘oh, what are you, where are you planning to go after this?’ And I said, ‘I'd really like to go to Ubud. And she's like, ‘oh, I really wanted to go there too.’ And I said, ‘well, maybe we could go together when we're done here.’ And that had been arranged before anything. So that was also this thing sort of hanging between us as we got through that first sort of week that we kind of had this conversation about going to Ubud, is that still going to happen?
MARTHE: So the question was, are we gonna leave the resort together and travel together? So when she decided she wanted to do that with me, and we left the resort, so we were just the two of us with no other people, no other distractions... I think that also really allowed her to fall in love with me, if that makes sense.
TASH: There was nobody else around us, it was just the two of us. And I really felt like I could let myself go, and really be, be in it and experience it.
MARTHE: Just to let, let go a little bit more. And we had these five days together, and they were just amazing on an island, and we're just like scootering and diving, and playing music. And one of the evenings, we had a lovely dinner, and we came back to our place, and there was a beautiful sky, you know it was like, the stars, and I put on - [laughs] so cheesy! I put on the song Yellow by Coldplay, and we were dancing on the street. Because of the stars, yeah, this is all so romantic! But when I think back of it, I was like, oh my god, we have really cheesy moments. But because you're so in love is like, so perfect.
TASH: We were like a couple on honeymoon there. Infatuated with each other, just always just loved being together 24/7.
And then there was a very obvious slip up where I'd obviously been like, ’you know, we're not we're not actually girlfriends, though. Like, this is not official.’ But like I'm very much in that headspace. I was like one day putting sunscreen on her back. And she was like, ‘don't put too much’ and I was like, ‘yeah, well, I don't want my girlfriend getting burn- ohhhh’ she said ‘what did you say?’ I was like ‘nothing! I said that I just don’t want you to get burnt. Here you finish. Bye’. We just didn't speak about that moment. And there was a couple of things like that that kept happening.
MARTHE: For me, in that week. I really started to think about what next because I was like, oh my god, I am really into her. And I don't want this to stop or end, ever.
TASH: So yeah, by the time we left Nusa Penida, we had said I love you. And it was, yeah, it was signed, sealed and delivered. We were a thing.
MARTHE: But even till the day we parted, I had no idea how things would go back home because she was quite reserved in her feelings. And I brought her to the airport. And I still had five days left. And she booked me a plane ticket to London. She was like ‘what weekend are you off?’ And I was like, ‘yeah, this weekend’. And then she was on her phone, and she was like,’ I just booked you a ticket to London. So we see each other in three weeks.’ And I was like, ‘oh, wow, that says a lot.’ And yeah, that was amazing, because then we said goodbye knowing that we would see each other again.
TASH: So I actually left Bali on the 15th of February, obviously you remember that because it's Valentine's day before. It was traumatic, it was horrible. I sobbed the entire way home on that plane. And partly because I was leaving Bali, and it always makes me cry when I leave Bali, but also because I was leaving her in Bali. And she still had two weeks there left. So then we were on a different time zone for like two weeks, which is also awful, and I was doing shows because I'm a performer and I had a week of shows, and like every free moment we’re like on the phone to each other, texting each other, FaceTiming each other all the time.
And then and then after like two weeks or so, and it's just getting to like the last 48 hours until we see each other - so she arrived in the UK on the first of March - and then all of a sudden you get this fear.
MARTHE: Oh I was so nervous. But we have been in contact non-stop. So I think that really helped me because I think if it was a bit like a message, or phone call here and there, I would have felt less confident and way more nervous. But yeah, I was just really nervous to see her again.
TASH: Oh my god, we met each other in this perfect place. It was like this perfect destination. We were on holiday, we were both like the best versions of ourselves. And we don't know each other in our normal lives.
MARTHE: And now we have to deal with real life. And she also had to work that weekend. And I'm gonna see her place for the first time. So that brings a lot of pressure.
TASH: It’s like what happens if we get here, and it doesn't work, and we don't like each other, and she's got loads of annoying habits that she didn't do in Bali, you know? And always kind of like fears suddenly set in and we were really nervous, so nervous, to see each other, but also like really excited and so secure that it was going to happen. And that was actually - when she arrived at the airport - the first thing I said to her was ‘will you be my girlfriend?’ and I asked it in Dutch to make it official.
And then that first weekend was incredible. It was like nothing was different. It was so easy.
MARTHE: We were still so so in love. So yeah, that was amazing.
TASH: So then it made the next 10 months of being long distance.... I mean it made it worth it, but also a real challenge because we really understand how good we are together, and how we really function so well together. So it was really hard not being together for 90% of our time.
MARTHE: I was like, ok, it's not ideal, but it's, it's doable, it’s, yeah, we can, we can make this work. I think also with experience of being in a long distance relationship before it was the Philippines. And now it’s London. So in that way, things were way easier. Yeah, we can, we can do this.
TASH: At the end of December last - last last year, sorry, yeah, two years ago, Marthe moved to London. And we then went travelling, we got engaged, we came back, and we're like, ‘yay, we're gonna come back to London now and be engaged together in our house in London’. And we got back, the day that lockdown was announced in the UK was the day that we arrived back, we're standing in Tescos, trying to find toilet roll. That was our first - so this is the thing, we've been like long distance all this time. We've now travelled together, which is like together all the time, but it's like travelling, it's fun. And now we are isolated in a two bedroom apartment for 10 weeks, is our first six months of living together. So we've done every version of a relationship, like every configuration
MARTHE: When we met at the surf resort, Tash has already been there. And the owner is actually Dutch. So we came back a year later, and we got engaged there. So that place is so special for us.
TASH: I think that I am originally Indonesian in another life, because Bali is literally, when I go there, it feels like home. And the first time I discovered Bali was back at the end of 2017 going into 2018, I believe. And I went there to a surf retreat for three weeks. And it was the most incredible three weeks of my life. It was quite literally life changing, just in about how I I started to see myself and the world, and and then the following year, I went back again the second - so exactly a year later. And that was the year that I met Marthe. So I always joke that this place every single time I go there, my life changes massively. And that first year was a massive shift in my friends really saw a difference in me when I came back. So the second year, I went there, and I met Marthe, and my life definitely changed. And then again, we went back together the next year. So that was my third time there. And she proposed, so every single time I go to Pelan Pelan in Bali, my life has a massive shift.
MARTHE: I remember so vividly that I was actually, I was gonna book a different surf yoga resort because that was a little bit cheaper. But the woman never got back to me, and then I googled a little bit more and I found this service are owned by Dutch woman and I was like this sounds really cool. But if I would have been there a different week, or I would have gone somewhere else, then we would have never met and my life would have been so different. It's crazy.
MARIA: Equal Parts is produced by me, Maria Passingham. Thanks to Audio Network for the music, and thank you Tash and Marthe for sharing your story.
If you’d like to keep up with Tash & Marthe, you can follow them on Instagram at _breakingthedistance, visit www.breakingthedistance.com or search for Breaking the Distance in your podcast app, and on YouTube. There’s links to all of these in the shownotes for this episode too.
For each episode of Equal Parts an illustrator or artist designs a piece of original artwork. They only listen to the audio and create an impression of the story. Tash and Marthe’s romance has been immortalised beautifully by Zaina Mayat.
Visit equalpartspodcast.co.uk to see it! You can also find there all the artwork for season 1, and information on the artists.
And finally, there are transcripts for each episode of Equal Parts for those who are d/Deaf or prefer to read. Visit equalpartspodcast.co.uk
Next week… wedding crashers and love letters.
GRAHAM: We're gonna dance with those two, you're taking the one in the blue, I'm gonna dance with the one in the red dress.
JULES: He wrote a letter every single day. I used to sit and read them with my mother!
Season 2: Coming Soon!
MARIA: Equal Parts is back. With stories of holiday romances becoming life partners, social networks disappearing oceans, and first impressions that are hard to forget.
AAMIR I could see his little eyes in the front rolling, like, [sighs] ‘who do these queens think they are?’
TASH: It was that movie moment, the sun was literally shining directly to her, and her eyes were like ka-ding! And I was like, ‘oh… she’s kinda cute!’
JULES: Casually, he just said, ‘would you like to go out for dinner? Let's go out.’ And I literally ran across the dancefloor to my friends. I'm like, ‘give me a pen, give me a pen. Somebody! Gotta be a pen, he wants my number, give me a pen!’
GRAHAM: I still have that piece of paper. And I’ve put it in a little plastic sleeve. And on the one side, it's the message from the Royal International Hotel, and on the back, it says Julie H 70650.
MARIA: In a time marked by separation, escape to scenes of lovers finding each other.
This season will transport you across the world, from Nigeria to New Zealand, to dance, explore, and fall in love under the stars.
TY: We just had this night where we just sat on the beach, just talking, all night long. And I remember watching the constellation of Orion, kind of, move across the - like it rose up above the horizon and moved across the whole sky, and I just remember thinking like, [sighs] ‘universe, this is what I want!’.
AMAKA: He literally told me, that same day, he wanted to marry me. So that’s when everything changed.
STANISLAV: And to tell someone that you love them, and dead silence...it got like longer and longer, it’s just like awkward, and just being like, ‘ok, did I destroy everything?’.
FELIPE: It was not one of those situations when you meet someone in person and it feels awkward, it almost feels like a surprise and like ‘oh is this finally happening?’, almost like, er I was being electrocuted? Electrocuted I mean in a good way.
MARTHE: Ok, I just want to be her friend, and I don't want to make things complicated. I am single, and I want to have this travel experience for myself. So I don't want to fall in love!’ That's what I said to everyone when I left for that trip, like, ‘oh, this is going to be my trip, it’s going to be my year and I'm not going to fall in love. And it's just going to be all about me, myself, and I.’
TOBY: It’s difficult to describe her in words because sometimes you just feel that words don’t do justice.
MARIA: The A.V. Club calls Season 1 "life-affirming and hopeful".
Subscribe now to Equal Parts. Season 2 launches on Valentine's Day.
Kristina & Ilya
KRISTINA: I found that video, and I played it, and I realised that was him.
ILYA: I have to do something really really crazy, to catch her.
KRISTINA: That was, the most romantic thing in my life, and it’s still the most romantic thing in my life.
MARIA: Welcome to Equal Parts, a series of true love stories, told by the couples themselves. This week, a film-worthy meet-cute that kick started Kristina & Ilya’s relationship. Now living in London, these two met in Estonia.
Just a head’s up, there’s a little swear in this episode.
KRISTINA: My name is Kristina.
ILYA: My name is Ilya, I’m a Software Developer, er my partner is Kristina, so she’s also kinda er UX Designer, Web Developer…
KRISTINA: Er, we’ve been together for 10… oh, oh actually it’s gonna be 11 years errr next month, ummm I can’t properly remember the first time we met, actually because it was at uni and it was my second year, and it was really stressful… and...umm I was actually going through um, a very difficult phase in another relationship [laughs] um so um yeah, I probably didn’t notice when we first met.
ILYA: I can’t forget er the first time I met her, er that was in university, er that was 2007 I believe.
KRISTINA: I just remember like, some flashes when um I’m at uni, at the workshop or something and we share the same desk and I think, oh ‘this guy looks sexy! But concentrate on um statistical analysis Kristina!’ [laughs] um, but I guess first time we ever interacted properly and er had a chat was… um… so I was late for one of the lectures, err as I always was at that time. And er, I was running, and I tried to make as less noise as possible, so of course I fell over. And um my bag opened up and all the stuff I had in my bag, it was spread across the lecture room. Erm, of course everyone looked at me, and um, I was apologising and trying to collect all my stuff [laughs] erm and one guy just handed me my diary over.
ILYA: I helped her to pick up all her stuff, because some stuff er rolling under my table. She looks quite friendly, so er that’s why I didn’t hesitate to start a conversation with her, especially when I er, saw a small ticket of a concert, er that pulled out from her bag. And the thing is that I also attended this concert, that was er concert of one metal band, it’s called Amatory but today they don’t play metal anymore.
KRISTINA: So, I thanked him, and um, he whispered -
ILYA: “Did you attend this concert?”
KRISTINA: And I was like “what? Oh right”, because in my diary I kept all the tickets from all the gigs I was um going to, so, and I said “yeah yeah yeah, I was at that gig last week, right yeah” and like “oh that’s cool I was there too” “yeah cool cool, amazing” err, and after the lecture the guy handed me um a piece of paper and asked me for my MSN address… if anyone remembers that social network! [laughs]
ILYA: So that was the first topic that I, well, we start a conversation about. And er, yeah I understood that we have the same err… we like the same music.
KRISTINA: That night, I added him to my MSN, and I saw his erm avatar picture, and on that picture he had a photo camera, and the name of the band on his hat… exactly the same band that was a week ago. Um, and then something clicked in my head, because exactly a week ago, I was at that gig, and I saw a guy taking photos in front of the stage, and he was dressed exactly as that band, and I thought he’s with the band, because he like, everything was proper merch, with the band name, the hat, and um a t-shirt, and thought ‘that guy looks cool!’ because he was taking pictures and in the meantime he was er headbanging, um, so I took a video of that photographer, and so while I was chatting with Ilya over MSN I found that video, and I played it, and I realised that was him.
And I told him “Sorry to look creepy but, look at this video” and I sent it to him and he was like “oh shit that’s me!” [laughs] I was like “oh, I noticed you a week ago” [laughs]. So yeah, we decided to maybe go on a date next week.
Um...so yeah as I said before I was going through a difficult stage in my previous relationship, um so I was about to break up with that guy but he received a notice to go to the army. Um so I thought ‘I don’t want to be that person, to just dump him before he goes to the army. So, so ‘ok, it’s just eight months… and we’re not going to see each other too often so… I’m gonna wait until he’s back.’ [laughs]. So, erm, so he went to the army in September, and he was about to come back in July, erm and it was March when I met Ilya and went to that gig, so I was already planning my speech… and then I met Ilya and I guess I decided to speed up the break-up process [laughs], uh it sounds awful I know, but yeah I couldn’t… I couldn’t help myself because I already fell in love.
ILYA: I should admit that, that wasn’t like a love from the first sight. Er, she was attractive, she was pretty, but erm, you know I started to talk with her and I understand that she’s a very interesting person. So er, of course later er, when I really understand ‘ok I love this person’ er that was very balanced decision, so er, I really loved not her, er like er, her body, her face, I really love her as a person. And er when I started to speak with her, I understood, ‘ok I would like to be with this person’ because we have the same interests in the life, we have the same attitudes and approaches in this life. And I really wanted to spend some time with her.
KRISTINA: So I guess we met at uni erm almost every day at different courses and just in the meantime between courses we just had a walk around, it was quite warm. It was beginning of April… erm, so we just talked about different subjects and different courseworks and about life in general, just walked around the campus... but I guess the first proper date was er two weeks after we met... He decided to take me out to my favorite place in Tallinn so it's just outside of Tallinn, there is like a folklore museum, um so with wooden houses near the sea, and like, I don't know, like stone constructions around and a stone maze and swings.
So we went there and it was sunset and we were walking around, [sighs] this sounds really cheesy but [laughs] we started to walk inside the maze and... I was the least shy person, so when we met in the middle of the maze, I just decided to kiss him [laughs]. Um, it was quite awkward because at the same time my Dad called me, and what my Dad wanted me to do is to go to the shop after my date and buy toilet paper! Yeah, it's not that you want to say to your date right?
So… er but that's not the end because while we were awkwardly laughing and going back to the car, er, Ilya’s roommate called and asked him to buy toilet paper! [laughs]
So we went to the shop together on our first date... like first time kiss like an hour ago... buying toilet paper and walking out of the shopping mall with er, two packs of toilet paper [laughs.
Um, at the end of May he received a notice from the government to go to the army!
ILYA: In Estonia we’re obligated to go to the army for one year, and I wasn't an exception. And unfortunately, when I was 23 years old, I received [laughs] an invitation to the army and that was mandatory. Yeah, and at the same time, I met Kristina, and I double didn't want to go to the army, so you understand me? Er, but I didn’t have a choice.
KRISTINA: So lucky me! [laughs] Um, so yeah, and unluckily, it wasn’t eight months’ service, it was 12 months’ service, so.. Um, of course I decided that ‘yeah I wanna be with that guy, I'm gonna wait for him’ again.
ILYA: When you communicate with a girl, so you met her ,you know each other for three months, and you start to come on “can you wait for me one year” and of course she's young she's pretty she's attractive person and er, she won't wait for you for this such a long time. So ‘I have to do something really, really crazy to catch her’.
ILYA: So [laughs] I was a student ,I didn't have a lot of money, so I had a temporary work and I earned… a little bit of money and I decided to purchase Apple iPod... and I spent all my money for that, for this Apple iPod.. do you remember that 10 years ago this was iPod with the wheel joystick and 10 years ago that was like the best player ever, with the best music quality and stuff like that... and I also decided to write a song for her. And my plan was er to give the gift of the iPod having only one song song. The song created for her.
Er yeah I remember when I returned back, well we had like a dating, and I returned back to my student hostel... I just picked up my guitar and started just playing, and er you know that was probably only one moment in my life when I had a pure inspiration. You know I can't say that I’m a very talented musician but specifically that time, er that song just appeared from, from me... I can't expect it.
So I didn't wrote this music, this music was created by itself... and er you know, I don't have a musical education, so er, but I know, you have to write down this music because on the next morning when you wake up, you won't remember anything. So what I did I pick up my phone so at that time I didn't have a smartphone, I had a Sony Ericsson... but it has a... like a voice recorder and I played, recorded this music without any words just like a ‘nah nah nah nah nah’. Just to remember this music the next morning. And the whole day, the next whole day I repeated this music and... well I wrote the lyrics again very fast, and I decided to write down so I had a computer… er you should understand what is a student hotel, that is very old building. So if you do something, er the whole floor is listening to you.
So there's not really a problem how to write down the guitar. But how about the singing, how about the vocal? So what I did, I pick up the, just a blanket… I put to myself, and inside this blanket I tried to sing to the microphone, and that is only one solution...how, well [laughs] could afford… and yeah I created this music and I uploaded to this Apple iPod.
The plan was the following: er, one week before I er, go to the army we decided to have together a trip.
KRSTINA: I decided to take him on a trip to St. Petersburg, Russia, because my best friend was living there and I really like this city. Erm, and he’d never been to St. Petersburg properly… maybe like as a kid. Erm, so I decided to show him my favorite city at that point of life and erm, drink wine and sit on the rooftop and watch the sunset or something like this.
ILYA: St. Petersburg is very beautiful city and it’s very romantic. So you can just walk in the streets the whole night return by home at seven o'clock and everybody’s so happy. Oh, that is really, really amazing. And my plan was erm somehow to hide this player in our bag... and to move to the flat. So we lived in flats together with our friends. So there were five students all together in one small flat, and er, I wanted to hide somewhere this gift so er, yeah, the biggest problem that I didn't know anything about the flat and I didn't know how to hide this gift. And another problem that we had only one common bag, and I didn't know how to hide this gift in the way that Kristina shouldn't, shouldn't find it. And another problem: that's when you cross the border… er the tall officer should inspect your bag… and if you’re staying together so potentially the officer could open this gift just to inspect what it is... but actually everything was fine and I successfully moved the gift uncovered [laughs] to the flat... and er the whole week I tried to find any secret place where nobody could find the gift beforehand... and actually, well quite embarrassing but, there was under one place... in the toilet.
So in the toilet there was like a shelf, probably no one opened this shelf at all and I hided this gift in the shelf... and yeah, on the D Day we moved to the bus station, just to arrive back to Estonia and Kristina wanted to stay a couple of days more in St. Petersburg. And I secretly wrote a very small note and er... that was quite romantic morning and we decided to, to make this farewell very quick… because otherwise, we both would be crying. And er, we just quickly kissed each other, very quickly, er didn’t say anything to each other.. Just “see ya”, “see ya”, and I just gave this note her, she turned, er she didn’t read it, she just turned and went back to the metro station. Yeah. So I didn't see her reaction.
KRISTINA: When I waved him goodbye, he handed me a letter... And while I was watching erm, him going away, erm, I started to read the letter and apparently he erm, have hidden an iPod, which he bought for me erm somewhere in my friend’s flat and on the iPod he had a song that he has written for me. So I rushed home, I was crying all the way on the tube there, and when I found um, a gift, I locked myself in the bathroom and I was listening to that song... and that was the most romantic thing in my life it's still the most romantic thing in my life.
He was somewhere, there on the road, going to serve the country for 12 months and I'm here listening to his voice, erm a song about me, erm, so yeah I was crying out loud for probably a couple of months after that [laughs].
MARIA: Equal Parts is produced by me, Maria Passingham. Thanks to Audio Network for the music, and a special thanks to Kristina and Ilya.
Often love stories are in fact, stories of only the start of love, and as we all know, any good tale has an ending. Sadly, since recording this episode
Kristina & Ilya have separated, but they have given me their blessing to share their story, and so I thank you both very much, and wish you the very best.
As always, there’s a brand new piece of art to accompany this episode. This week, a humorous interpretation comes from D L Parker. Head over to equalpartspodcast.co.uk to give it a look, and find links to more of his work.
The website is also the place to go if you’d like to take part in the next season of the podcast. I’m looking for couples, and artists to get involved.
Next time, taking your date to see a play about eggs. I mean, who hasn’t been there?
ELLIE: When Lucy laughs you can hear it… she’s having the time of her life.
LUCY: Thinking about it, the reason I kind of, like, I knew she was very very cool, and I knew we were gonna get on was that this show… 9 times out of 10 a person would have been like “what the… is this?”.
Liam & Jess
JESS: You have to like, wade through quite a lot of like, very posey people who are obviously trying to put their body and their face first.
LIAM: I was already a bit nervous, and I was like, I thought ‘if I’m first here it’ll be ok’ but I was late and I had to like get a sort of dad run on.
JESS: With him I was like “oh my god this could go somewhere”.
MARIA: Welcome to Equal Parts, a series of true love stories, told by the couples themselves. This week: dating in the digital age, what happens if you approach tinder as a social experiment, well… you might just meet the one.
JESS: I’m Jess, I live in Manchester, originally from Cambridge, er my partner is Liam, and I’m Head of Communications for a small digital design agency in Manchester.
LIAM: My name’s Liam, my partner is Jess and we both live in the Northern Quarter.
We’ve been together for around… a year and…. Three months I’d say… officially. There was a three month period of the dating, the dating period.
JESS: So I, had actually just, not just, like six months’ previous come out of a really long term relationship, erm so I’d been single for a little while, and then, I’d seen obviously all my friends in the world of online dating, and I have to say I was a little bit envious. Because it always looked so fun from the other side! And none of them were like making the most of it.
People would be on it and they’d be like, oh you know, “there’s just no-one good on here, I’m not matching with anyone good” and you’d just think like “it’s because you’re not looking in the right places, either you’re too, er strict on who you think is perfect, or who you’re looking for based on a picture”, obviously that’s just, that is the world of online dating but I think people become quite methodical about it and they just go for the same people, and then, not happy with them. You think “it’s because you’re going for the same people, you have to expand your, I suppose your aim of it”.
It can’t always be about meeting ‘the one’ and looking you know, into the future, it should be about maybe you can just meet friends, you know, you’re obviously on a dating app for a reason, but maybe if you actually take it from that bass level of, maybe I’m just going to meet a nice person, that I can then hang out with, and then take it from there, that’s much more natural than jumping straight into thinking ‘am I going to marry this person’, ‘am I going to have babies?’ etc etc.
LIAM: I think the experiences of Tinder is always sort of hit and miss for everybody isn’t it, it’s just, but I’d say that’s sort of the same thing for all dating, you know it’s hit and miss, it just depends who you meet on it.
JESS: So I was like right dammit, I’m just going to jump straight into it, I’m gonna see what it’s all about, see who I can meet, just about expanding erm you know, where I was at that stage of being in Manchester, and after being in a relationship for so long, you do become quite dependent on someone else and your social circles completely get splintered after that.., so yeah it was an interesting point in my life for me to then meet someone who I connected with so well, erm, after a relatively, yeah, short period of time, which is really exciting.
I was actually on holiday at the time, and me and my friend had gone away for like a long weekend, erm, and we’d been delayed at the airport, and I was like ‘right, this is the time, if any, gonna download it now, see what it’s all about’, erm obviously I was in a foreign country so it was completely skewed everything when I got back as well, erm but it was just interesting, it was an interesting way of meeting people.
I work in a very small company so I don’t have that option… you know a lot of people you work in a business of 150+ people you’re bound to meet someone you know, a friend of a friend, that kind of thing. But I’m working with two people, both in long-term relationships, both of whom’s friends I’ve known already, so it’s like, that pool is not really there. Erm so yeah it was just interesting to see the different kinds of people out there, different you know things that people are doing with their lives, where people are going. Why people are in Manchester, why people aren’t in Manchester, erm, yeah it was just interesting. Bit like a social experiment. To be honest I probably didn’t see it as a dating app at first, probably went into it with quite like a, yeah, psychology mind to it, kind of trying to analyze people a little bit too much, but kind of added to the fun.
LIAM: I was actually a lads’ night out in Liverpool, er with all my mates for a, I think it was someone’s birthday, and I was flicking through and the first picture I came across was Jess like stroking a dog. I just went, ‘right yeah, points for that, you’ve ticked all the boxes there’, straight away looked through her pictures and was like ‘yeah, definitely’.
JESS: I can absolutely picture the pictures he had on it. Erm, and I remember when we matched and, I don’t remember his profile word for word but we had both definitely mentioned The Simpsons. Because I had The Simpsons in my profile, and I’m pretty sure the first thing he sent me was a gif of Ralph Wiggum waving, erm [laughs] very true to my heart.
LIAM: We are like, really big erm Simpsons lovers. Especially like, between seasons 1-10 any quote, that’s it like, we know what we’re talking about. She’ll mention something in passing and I’ll be like [clicks fingers] I know it.
JESS: He just, looked like a genuinely nice person. Obviously on dating apps you have to like, wade through a lot of, epope, holding fish… that seems to be a really big thing on Tinder… yeah you have to like wade through quite a lot of like, very posey people who are obviously trying to put their body and their face first. And obviously, Liam’s very attractive, but, he seemed like he had a personality to it as well, he had pictures of him and his friends, pictures of him and his dog, which obviously is a selling point.
LIAM: When I was a kid erm, we never like had a dog, so my Dad always had like Jack Russells and stuff like that and we were always like pressuring him “please can we get a dog”. We managed to convince him. Soon as we got one, when I was about… 14, I’ve been like in love with them ever since, they’ve always been amazing. But Jess is the flipside, she’s never had a dog.
JESS: I’ve always wanted a dog, like I’ve literally wanted a dog since I could write a letter to santa, it’s always been on my list, always been on my Birthday list.
LIAM: She looks after a dog for one of her friends on a Monday, she takes pictures with them and all sorts.
JESS: I think at that time, I think on my Tinder profile, I probably had a picture of me and three dogs… none of which are mine, all of which belong to friends. And I had to put like a disclaimer on it to say like “none of these dogs belong to me, please don’t match with me if you think I have a dog”.
I think it shows a lot about a person if they like animals, and dogs are just the best to me.
LIAM: It was definitely a big ice-breaker.
JESS: Erm, quite quickly arranged a date in person, which felt, yeah it just felt natural, the way we’d been talking, it was very erm straight in, to being like “how was your day”, just genuinely interested in each other, and...yeah it just kind of then moved onto “let’s get a drink and you know see how things are” there’s no point carrying it on forever online and never meeting up. You have to do it at some point and see whether the spark’s there or not.
LIAM: After a couple of days of texting we met up at The Gas Lamp. I was already a bit nervous and I was like, I thought ‘if I’m first here it’ll be ok’ but I was late, I was running late, so I was like running down the road, but yeah first time I walked through the door I was like ‘oh god’ I was like in a complete and utter fluster.
I completely lost track of time, so I was getting changed at work and er like someone mentioned to me, like “oh have a good, have a nice time” I had to like run to the toilet to get changed and make myself look like, at least presentable. I think I was wearing a dark jumper, and I was wearing my red jacket and black skinny jeans. I can’t remember what she’s wearing… which she’s going to kill me for.
JESS: I don’t remember what he was wearing at all. I was very distracted by his eyes it has to be said, that’s what I was kind of focussed on that whole date.
LIAM: I thought ‘I don’t want to like, I don’t want to get there too late, I’m already 10 minutes late, so I had to like get a sort of dad run on. But by the time I got there I was like, there was like a bead of sweat rolling down, I was like ‘oh my god no’ but… yeah a bit rushed, but hopefully she didn’t notice that about me when I walked in, because I was already looking around the room when I walked in so… I didn’t want to appear the creepy guy who’s sweating and [laughs] but, hopefully not.
JESS: Erm, I remember I was really early, because I thought I was going to be really late, and I remember being in the down- ‘cause you go downstairs, basement bar, back room. And I remember telling my friend that I was gong and she was like “there’s no signal down there, you can’ go, it’s really unsafe”. And I was like “I don’t think it’s unsafe, there’s plenty of people around”. And then I went in and there was no one there and there was no signal, and I was like “oh no’ [laughs].
Erm, and then I ordered a drink, and I sat down and then I felt really guilty because I hadn’t bought him one, but then I panicked about buying him one in case I bought him something he didn’t like, and I was like really flustered by the time he got there and I was like apologising straight away, and he was like “stop” [laughs].
LIAM: So, er she was in the very back rom at Gas Lamp, and I walked in and there was a couple of people already in there, and er she has two phones, like one for work and you know, a personal one, and they were sort of resting on top of each other. And erm, I don’t know if it was from nerves on her part, but she kept like checking them, and I thought “oh my god, I’m completely falling apart in this date, I’ve not kept any interest at all” but I think she was still working, or still on the clock, I thinks he was like, checking like Facebook and stuff, you know like to do with her work so, but I didn’t know that at the time, so I was like “oh my god, I’m terrible, she’s checking both phones, why’s she got both phones, is she some sort of dealer, what’s going on?”.
JESS: I have a work phone and a personal phone, I had both of them on the table, which is really bad manners, and something I completely regret doing on a first date, but it probably did give him quite a good insight into who I am. And I had both of them on the table, and I had to answer work emails at the same time, all that kind of thing. So we obviously talked about that, erm both in jobs that we’re quite passionate about, so that always helps, it wasn’t erm, yeah a case of like “what do you do”, “well I live for the weekend” kind of thing, we’re like, both quite committed.
LIAM: I think we were talking about holidays and stuff.
JESS: Where we’d been, where we’d want to go.
LIAM: We, er bonded over the fact that both of us are terrible flyers.
JESS: He was going away for a few days with a friend, a couple of days after, which I thought was really nice, just spontaneous trip away kind of thing, which I think is something you have to look for, like that spontaneity, and willingness to just travel and be with other people as well, you can’t be someone who depends solely on your partner, you have to have an extended reach of people, and an extended community.
Erm, I brought up, ‘cause Simpsons is something we have in common, erm I brought up this exhibition I’d been to.., one of the things they had to do, one of the activities was you had to draw Milhouse from memory. He’s one of the hardest characters to draw. And I brought it up, like because of just rambling, I didn’t know what else to talk about… so he did it on the back of one of Gaslamp’s menus [laughs] and for like every date for about two months after that, every time we met he drew me a Simpsons character on the back of a menu, which I thought was really cute.
I’d love it if they had it framed, that would be really nice [laughs].
LIAM: I think I walked her home, about… hmm close to midnight, so I was wrecked but I was trying to hide it, erm but she lived in the same, or she lives in the same building that like the guy who sits next me in work lives in, and I was like, that was my first thing, I was like “oh my god, Tim lives here” but I was like ‘shhhh, shut up, be cool man, be cool’ [laughs]. Erm, so erm, but yeah I think once I got home I was like “hope you had a good night”. I think, I think I text that.
JESS: I remember it was the next day. I remember getting it at work. Because I work with two boys as well, so it’s like a very exciting thing to happen and then you can’t really react to it because they won’t care. Well they’ll like care but they won’t really get it at the same level, so you’re like… got the text, and I had to text my friends really subtly being like “oh my god he’s text me, this is really exciting”.
It was one of the first dates as well that I’d been on that actually felt it could go forward. Like, I’d been on a couple, and they were really nice guys, but it just didn’t really feel like it was going to go anywhere, so it’s like ‘yeah, fair enough’ like it’s been an experience, but with him I was like “oh my god this could go somewhere”. I don’t really know how to behave, I don’t really know what the next step is...so yeah, I definitely text my friends and was like, I think it’s like “what is my next step, what’s the next move, who texts who first”, all of that really lame stuff, but yeah it was fun. It’s a fun moment, that first time you like have that experience with someone, or have that spark and start seeing it moving forward.
Because he was going away for a few days afterwards as well, we had to have that time where we couldn’t see each other, which I think was quite good… it meant we were still chatting erm everyday, by text, but you couldn’t have that like, constant face to face interaction, we didn’t like fall into spending all our time together, which I think again is important that you’re not committing to someone that you’ve only known for, you know a few hours on a date kind of thing.
LIAM: She was late for the second date.
JESS: I made him go to erm [laughs, I asked him to go to Salut, which is the wine bar in Manchester, and he doesn’t really drink wine, but I was like “oh I’ll show you, it’s really exciting”.
LIAM: So I was waiting there, and she was like 20 minutes late and I thought “oh my god I’m being stood up… what’s going on?”
JESS: I was really nervous when I first saw him, because I didn’t think he recognised me! [laughs] It was really embarrassing!
LIAM: And she turned up and she was like “I’m sorry, I was looking after a dog”, and I was like “right, you’ve won me over, it’s fine, all forgotten”.
JESS: And that was really nice because obviously he’d been away as well so, he had lots of stories from that which made it a lot easier than just talking about work again, yeah it was like a whole new raft of things to discuss. Yeah, and then we went just like bar hopping across Manchester basically [laughs].
LIAM: She was like “I always felt really bad, you know like I’m really sorry that I was late” and I’m like “I was fine, but I really thought you’d stood me up!”.
JESS: After the second date, he like didn’t text me until 7pm, and I had to text him first. I remember that, because he left me hanging, for ages [laughs] and I’ve told him off quite a lot about it. And yeah, turns out he was just trying to play it cool.
LIAM: The year before, I’d gotten out of a, like, a relationship. So for the like, following few months that I was just like you know keeping it casual. When I met, as much as we really connected I didn’t want to like, rush into it or anything.
JESS: We had a conversation about erm… not going on other dates. We had a conversation about that, about a month, 4-6 weeks after we first started seeing each other. And then about a month after that we were ‘official’.
LIAM: You know we had the conversation of whether we should be ‘Facebook Official’ or not, and er, yeah I think that we put it up, and we had a bet on how many likes we’d get on Facebook, and I think er, I think she won that one actually… I think she won that bet.
I know there’s always sort of like a perceived stigma, about like Tinder and stuff like that, especially with an older generation. So if like my mum says like “oh how did you meet” it would be like that sort of cautious, should I be honest, should I sort of said, but I think I just sort of said it… except to my Nan.
Me Nan’s always got this thing where like, because like my Nan’s like a 1000% more Scouse than I am, erm she does this thing she’s like “how’s your Judy?”, and I’m like “her name’s Jess”, and she’s like “no, I know her name’s Jess but that’s the term - Judy” and I’m like “hmmmm alright”, so erm when
I like tell her, she’s like “how did you meet again?” so I just have to be like “oh yeah, we met in the pub”, that’s literally just like that’s it, there’s no more questions. If I brought up like phones and all sorts you know I’d be spending like another 25 minutes explaining stuff so, it’s just easier to be like “yeah, pub”.
Equal Parts is produced by me, Maria Passingham. Thanks to Audio Network for the music, and to Jess and Liam.
As you must know by now, each episode of Equal Parts has an accompanying piece of original artwork. Graphic designer Daniel Brown created the piece for Jess & Liam’s story, and you can see it and find links to more of his work at equalpartspodcast.co.uk
Next week, small coincidences and grand gestures.
KRISTINA: That guy looks cool, because he was taking pictures and in the meantime, he was head-banging.
ILYA: I have to do something really really crazy to catch her.
MARIA: Now, I want to ask a little favour of you. Remember Davide & Nick from a few weeks’ ago? A condensed version of their story is up for a competition, and I’d love your support. Please search MyRodeCast, that’s R-O-D-E, MyRodeCast, and vote for Equal Parts, thank you.
Becky & Jay
BECKY: He had like his green Fred Perry on… the glasses, so like I remember noticing that and just being like… ‘you’re hot’.
JAY: We were sitting on the top deck next to each other and you’re sort of sitting there, going ‘I’m not sure what to do here’ do you do the cheesy arm over the shoulder?
BECKY: He actually said, "“please don’t tell anyone this, ever.
MARIA: Welcome to Equal Parts, a series of true love stories, told by the couples themselves. This week, a noughties retelling of the classic waitress in a cocktail bar scenario, and a mod-tastic customer who keeps coming back, again, and again, and again.
Just a head’s up, this episode contains one mild swear towards the end.
BECKY: My name is Becky Hodges, and my husband is Jay Hodges.
JAY: I’m Jay, and I am now married to Becky, for...coming up to two years this year, so in all that’s about nearly 10 years together.
BECKY: He is honestly the kindest, most generous, thoughtful person ever. He’s not very erm vocal with it, so, I’m, I tell him I love him about 1000 times a day, and expect the same as well, whereas for him, he shows me he loves me through like acts of service, so he will always make me a cup of tea, he you know, looks after me so well, and that’s how he tells me he loves me. He’s cool, he’s still to this day way too cool for me.
JAY: I’ve probably gone from being this sort of shy, fairly removed sort of kid, er head down in my sort of work, very male orientated sort of vibe like ‘I’m a man’ sort of thing, to being a lot more softer, a lot more, hopefully more accomodating, moldable I suppose, to more of a person that someone would want to be with, that’s probably thanks to Becky in that sense.
BECKY: He was a lot more quiet, then, compared to now. I think he’s had no choice but to, if ever he wants to say anything now he just has to jump in, because otherwise he won’t get a chance.
JAY: Er, but I like to think I have influenced her in my own way.
BECKY: He’s made me such a better person… I was a real cow [laughs].
So, I worked in a pub.
JAY: Called The Camden, and erm, not in Camden, and my friends used to frequent it quite a lot.
BECKY: A really old man’s pub, not a cool pub at all. And my friend was the landlord which is how I got the job there, because I’m a terrible barmaid [laughs]. Erm, so I was working in the pub, I think it was just a regular evening or whatever, and this guy walked in, and he was mod-tastic. I actually remember the exact thing that he was wearing the first time I ever saw him.
He had, this really lovely white shirt on, a pencil thin blue Fred Perry tie, with a Fred Perry pin in it as well, really tight suit trousers, way too tight, erm quite pointy shoes, and he had this like, mod, bowl haircut, thick black glasses, erm, and yeah he just walked into the bar and was so out of place it was hilarious. And erm, walked towards me to be served, and my friend who was the landlord, said to me randomly, out of nowhere, “oh you’re gonna marry that guy” and then walked off, and then like left me kind of startled to serve this guy. And so we didn’t have conversation at all, I just served him and that was it. And then… he kind of kept coming in.
So he only ever really came in with two friends who are now really really good friends of mine, but erm, he would come in with Mike after badminton, which is not the sexiest of looks when you’re really trying to like, pick up a chick [laughs] you know, “hey where have you been?”, “er at Badminton with my friend Mike” [laughs]. He literally, he sounded like a 65 year old. Erm, and not the most athletic either. And then his other friend Darren who he would go out with had a long-term girlfriend Louise, who is also a really great friend of mine now, but it was just the three of them, because the pub was situation, erm, just across the road from a train station, so everyone would go there before they were going on their big night out, so I would kind of see them all come in and have loads of fun, then not quite be able to work out what the dynamic was?
Erm, so, yeah I didn’t really know them very well, but yeah I think they were all sort of starting to take the piss out of him, kind of keep coming to the pub that he wanted to see the barmaid at.
JAY: I think they worked it out after a while, because I often spent most of the time at the bar talking to her and leaving them in the corner but er [laughs] yeah I’m sure they’ll er be pleased that they allowed me to do that.
BECKY: And every time he came in I would notice him, and kind of be desperate to talk to him, but not really know what to talk to him about, and we… that kind of went on for a little bit, and er, it turned out that there’s this one evening, we were both, I don’t know, hanging out in the bar and, I remember he had like his green Fred Perry on again with the bowl haircut and the glasses, and actually I think that was the first time that I saw that he had, erm a tattoo, because his arm was out, so like I remember noticing that and just, being like ‘oh my god, yeah, you’re hot’, and he had very tight trousers on back then, which was really helpful because he’s got an amazing arse.
JAY: And then it come to a point I think when we was in there one day and either she’d finished her shift, or, she was with her friend Nancy from memory, and me and my friend were sitting down, and they had one of these digital jukebox things, where you would just mess around with the songs, and I think weirdly enough we both went up at the same time and was gonna choose the same song.
BECKY: We ended up putting the same song on the jukebox, they had this big erm, electronic jukebox, you know that they’ve got in most pubs, and we both selected a song…
JAY: Called I think ‘My Generator’
BECKY: I think it was ‘About Your Dress’
JAY: By The Holloways.
BECKY: By The Maccabees… I think… you might have to fact-check that.
JAY: I haven’t listened to that for a long time, but yeah, and it just happened to be that was the first sort of initial, face-to-face introduction that we had.
BECKY: And erm, we both realised that we’d both put it on and had a bit of a conversation, and it was all like [squeals] ‘oh my god, the only other kind of, cool person here’.
JAY: We spoke with my friends and her friends for a few hours and then we parted ways… errr, and then.. That’s… To be honest I sort of forgot about her in a way, for a bit, er as you do, erm and it happened to be that we was in one of these cheesy clubs that we used to go to when you was younger that, it’s been a long time again since I’ve been somewhere like that.
BECKY: We then ended up in a club, in The Venue in newcross, very classy. On the indie floor, because it was 2007.
JAY: On the upper floor was like the ‘alternative/indie’ floor so we’d always be up there.
BECKY: We just kind of bumped into each other, and it was so serendipitous because I had no intention of being there, I wasn’t with you know my regular group of friends, I don’t really think he was, or if he was then he wasn’t with them, and er he just kind of said “you’re the girl from the pub”, I was like “you’re the guy from the pub”.
JAY: And it seemed like the night flew by, ‘cause we ended up just being at the bar talking for hours, er I think I alienated her friends that she was with for the night, because I took all her time up [laughs] away from them, and it was pretty much, which is quite impressive for me being the shy person I was at the time, sort of went in for the kiss at the end of the night, got in there, thought ‘whey! I’m in’ er and being the desperate person I maybe was at the time, I thought straight away, “when are you available for a date?”.
BECKY: We swapped numbers, and literally had our first date the next day.
JAY: So I even text her and said “are you around the next day to go for a drink?” which actually ended up being the case.
BECKY: I remember everything. It’s ridiculous because Jay probably remembers nothing. But he text me, and I was in my parents’ house, I was painting garden furniture, which is very ‘rock ‘n’ roll, er trying to get over my hangover probably. And he text, and it was in Blackheath, and it was at night, and I remember I wore like a red dress, and it was in The Railway pub in Blackheath and he, er there’s no signal there because it’s a complete dead spot, so I was like, ‘how am I going to find him?’, but of course, like, he was just there.
Straight from work, like looking really smart and dapper because in those days he was really… erm, I was about to say ‘into looking good’ but that’s so not what I mean [laughs], he just had a very different look, he’s a lot more casual now. But erm, yeah suited up and all the rest of it, and the stand-out thing that I remember is that he was drinking Fruli, which is a strawberry beer, which like the Jay that I know now who’s like craft beer fanatic, brews his own beer and all the rest of it, for him to be drinking strawberry beer, I think he’d rather die than do that now. Erm, so yeah I like to remind him of that.
JAY: Erm, I remember I got there first, had a drink, she always took the mick out of me because I think I was drinking that Fruli, like fruit beer at the time, erm, but yeah she was late, I think she was, I always remember her saying her Dad dropped her off, so I’d dread to think what she was telling her Dad, or where she was going, or who she was seeing… it was a Monday night which is really weird, people say that is really weird, but erm, it was quite nice for me because I worked in London so I was coming home, so I was being a bit selfish asking her because I knew she was a student, erm but yeah it was a really nice night.
You just know sometimes when conversation flows so easily, and you’re not umming and ahhing about what to say, it’s just naturally, you’ll talk irrelevant stuff, it could be pointless stuff, it could be anything, but it seems to be that no silent sort of stages which is, which is a big thing I think in couples. You don’t have that lull, that sort of boredom or struggle to sort of create a conversation, and that’s a big thing yeah.
BECKY: We just sat and chatted, and there was - probably because I like to talk and Jay’s a good listener - but there were no dead points, and not at one point did I think ‘oh hope I see this guy again’ I kind of thought ‘I know I will’.
JAY: Took her home, being the gentleman, the person I like to think I am. I always remember because we got the bus back, being the tight days [laughs], I was still only training at that time, in my job. So I remember we got the night bus back and I walked her back to her house, and it was that weird moment, when we were sitting on the top deck next to each other and you’re sort of sitting there, going ‘I’m not sure what to do here’ do I make a move in them cheesy sort of er, you know schoolboy sort of feelings, you’re like, do do the cheesy arm over the shoulder? What do you do?
And we just kept talking really and the bus ride flew along, I bottled it in terms of doing anything. I thought ‘right it’s the first date, I don’t know her that well’… even though we’d already kissed in theory, but we were both drunk in fairness… but er, just wasn’t quite sure how to make that first step, and that was always my problem growing up, you can ask my friends that. And it was just again, walking her to the door and that awkward, “great night, goodbye” type thing and do you go for the kiss, nope no, you just say goodbye and weirdly walk off on your own, so errr [laughs] but yeah you quickly message each other as you walk off saying like “great night, let’s do it again” type thing and then that was the case. Erm, and just got really positive vibes from the first thing.
And then it was just that gradual process of, talking to each other, texting to each other, trying to meet up as much as possible, and I think we actually saw quite a lot of each other in the first few weeks, which is quite common I suppose, but it was always, er my feeling at the time, again going back to this shyness, it was always the next step up, could I pluck the courage to try and go in for a kiss sober? Because I’ve not got the sort of er, the confidence of the beer in me, so er it took me a few weeks to get to that point.
And I’ll always remember I think I left her house one night and I was dropping her off, and she said like “you are allowed to kiss me you know” and that was the first point at which we, sort of went “sod it” might as well go for it, and that was er the point from that point onwards, there was plenty of kissing involved. Enough said on that point [laughs].
BECKY: We dated, like a lot, and actually Jay was probably the first guy that I went out on proper dates with? Erm, you know and Jay’s got a real like, I don’t know what the term is… Champagne thinker, beer drinker? Kind of tastes, so, he really sort of wined and dined me, which was really lovely. He probably racked up loads of credit card bills [laughs].
May 17th is the day that Jay officially asked me out, it was very sweet. He erm played me a Ramones track… called… ‘I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend’ and I honestly, I think I just died a little bit when he did that, it was the cheesiest thing. He actually said “please don’t tell anyone this, ever” so I’ve really really broken that promise [laughs]. Erm but it was honestly the sweetest thing, yeah it was just, it was gorgeous. So yeah, you can’t really say no after that.
JAY: You should ask Becky about the first time she met my parents.
BECKY: [laughs] Oh my goodness. I’m so embarrassed about this even now, because they will not let it lie [laughs]. Erm so the first time I met Jay’s parents, I was staying… so we’d been going out for quite a bit, and erm, oh god it’s so embarrassing… I was working at the pub still, so it was after a late shift, so I must have finished at like midnight or whatever. And we went back to Jay’s parents’ house because, aforementioned 21 year olds.
And he was turning off the lights and getting some water or whatever it is, and said “just go up to the top of the stairs, and turn left” I was like “ok, cool”, like creeping around the house in the pitch black, and… went upstairs, and, kind of just like crept into this room… and you know when like it’s really dark and you turn the lights on before you actually walk into the room? WelI did that only to be greeted by his two parents bolt upright in bed, because I had walked in on them, in bed. And was like “oh my god, I’m so sorry, I’m so sorry” and like, backed out of the room and closed the door as quickly as humanly possible… and then was like ‘oh my god’, and had to re-open the door, and walk in and go “I’m really sorry again, I’ll just turn off the light” [laughs] and then exit the room and was just dying. I just wanted to leave, I was like “oh my god I’m so sorry”.
So ended up staying the next, and woke up in the morning and his Mum and Dad were so so gracious, and lovely, and cooked me breakfast, and really welcomed me, and were great. Erm and then they went out shopping, or did whatever they were doing and Jay and I had plans for the day. But his parents have this beautiful roll-top bath. So of course like having a shower, and getting ready for whatever we were doing that day, and we left, and I don’t know, we were out and about.
And Jay got a call, from his Dad. Being like “um, did you guys have showers?” and Jay was like “yeah of course we had showers, like get ready in the morning” and his Dad was just like, “um, I don’t know what’s happened, but I think Becky might have flooded the living room”. I was like “oh my god”.
So it transpires, because I’m quite.. I talk with my hands anyway, but I’m not really used to showering in a roll-top bath, like you had to sit down in it and shower, it’s really awkward, and there’s no shower curtain or anything.
So in the process of me showering, I had managed to get water absolutely everywhere in their bathroom… and not even notice it, because it was down by the sides of like the corner in the bath and all of that sort of thing. And Jay’s Mum and Dad had got home, and noticed that [laughs] on their kitchen floor was a puddle… and they looked up and it was coming through the light. And there were like “oh my god, there’s a burst pipe or something”.
Jay’s Dad had been trying on his new suede shoes that they had been out buying. So he took it upon himself to stand on a chair and take out the lampshade in their kitchen, only to be completely covered, head to toe in water, by the water that I had flooded their bathroom with earlier that morning. So…. [laughs] yeah, I was mortif- I had to buy them flowers, you know, the whole, the whole thing. They were, they were amazing and still really laugh about it, but erm yeah no I wanted to die. I really wanted to die [laughs].
Jay’s mum gave me a plastic glass to use at their house for years because I smashed so many of her glasses, because I’m so clumsy. So once they kind of knew that about me, erm they just expect it from me. Their house is really full of ornaments and stuff like, it’s beautiful but I’m, I’m just not built for it, I’m just so clumsy.
I think he thinks Pete saying that I was going to marry him before I’d even met him is a load of shit [laughs].
JAY: Becky always talks and I’m sure she will about how as soon as she see me she knew, and I’ve told her this, that wasn’t me, I didn’t know. But it was just that real connection that you have in terms of having fun with someone and that was what I was willing to explore more.
BECKY: I, I think he thinks that I’m romanticising it, but I swear that’s what he said, and it just left me startled you know? But I was, I was so annoyed when I met Jay though because I was 20, I was literally living my best life [laughs], like it really annoyed me that I had met this amazing guy, because once you meet the person that you’re going to marry you can’t unmeet them. So I was, I was pretty pissed [laughs].
MARIA: Equal Parts is produced by me, Maria Passingham. Thanks to Audio Network for the music, and to Becky and Jay for taking part.
As always, there’s a beautiful illustration to accompany this episode, this time created by the amazing Herfa Thompson. You can find it and all of the others so far at equalpartspodcast.co.uk
If you’re enjoying Equal Parts please show your support by rating, reviewing, and most importantly telling your friends about it.
Next week, proof that spending hours watching your favourite cartoon over and over again isn’t time wasted, when it leads to matching with your significant other.
LIAM: We are like, really big erm Simpsons lovers.
JESS: For like every date for about two months after that, every time we met he drew me a Simpsons character on the back of a menu, which I thought was really cute.
Season 1 (most recent first)
Sarah & Dennis
SARAH: This white cat used to run out, and I would see this man in his dapper suit, squat down and play with it.
DENNIS: I think she came into my office with a, with an agenda!
SARAH: I was so embarrassed, and so surprised... I ran out of the room.
MARIA: Welcome to Equal Parts, a series of true love stories, told by the couples themselves. This is the final episode of this season, and I’m on the lookout for new stories. If you or someone you know has a romantic, cringe-worthy, or ludicrous story about meeting a partner, there’s info on how to get involved at the end of the episode.
For now, lose yourself in the world of office romances. This is a bit of a special one to round off the season. The couple in question have been married for 31 years, and… just happen to be my parents.
SARAH: Okay, so my name is Sarah Passingham.
DENNIS: I'm Dennis Passingham.
SARAH: We met through work... which was running events for Norwich City Council.
DENNIS: In about 1984, I think it was.
SARAH: 1985…. I think.
DENNIS: I was promoted to head one of the divisions of the Leisure & Community Services Department. Part of my job moved over to a new post, and I was involved in the interviewing. Sarah was one of the candidates... And she got the job.
SARAH: Essentially, he was promoted, and I took over a big chunk of his work.
DENNIS: I thought she was er, spirited, talkative, and interesting.
SARAH: He was very efficient. He was always dressed in a suit, er good looking. Very, very smart. Always the smartest person in the room actually.
DENNIS: I, I thought she was fun, but I didn't think any more than that. And I had a girlfriend.
SARAH: I didn't really want to get involved with anybody at work, anyway. It wasn't on my agenda, I wasn't even sort of thinking about that. Our office was a big open plan corner office with a big bow window… and we could look right down the hill towards the river. And the sun used to go down there. And there were balloons that used to float across the sky sometimes, and you could just see the cathedral and the castle... I mean, it was just an extraordinary viewpoint.
And when I was working out what I was going to do about events, I used to get a cup of tea and stand in that window with glass kind of around me, looking at that view, and thinking how I was going to do things. And I would see so many times this man in his dapper suit or sometimes a black mac, walk down the pathway... I used to watch him, I could see the top of his head - he had very dark, thick, wavy hair. And when he got to the corner of the buildings just beyond us, this white cat used to run out, and it used to almost be waiting for him. And instead of just walking straight past it… He used to just squat down and play with it, and stroke it. And it was obviously very happy to see him. And he would spend quite a little while, longer than just somebody just giving it an odd stroke… erm and I used to think ‘that’s nice… he does that every, every time? And that cat is looking out for him’... I just liked that because you know, I’m a cat lover.
DENNIS: Later on, she came to work in my block of offices, and one evening, after the normal working day, I was in my office and she came in to ask me something.
SARAH: I ran events, and I was out a lot and then when my event was over or I had to come in early before an evening event, er I was often in, preparing stuff, photocopying, making signs… all that kind of stuff that you digitally nowadays… and on this particular occasion I was trying to use the photocopier, and to my astonishment this brand new photocopier had arrived and I got in a muddle with it. So I thought I’ll… see if there’s somebody in the building who actually has had a bit of training using this machine. So I went round all my side of the er, building… couldn’t find anybody at all, and went through into the next section. And the only person who was in there, working away in his office was, Dennis.
He was quite senior to me and I was a bit nervous, he had the door slightly open and I knocked on it and, asked him if he knew about the photocopier, and he didn’t, but of course being ‘a man’ he wanted to come and show me, and work it out anyway… I forget now whether we got it working or not. Probably we did…. And we said goodnight and I went off and did my thing.
Anyway, the next morning, I thanked him very much for erm, staying behind and he said erm, “oh that’s absolutely fine” or something, and then he looked, he had a funny little look on his face and as I was about to turn round and go out of the room he said -
DENNIS: “Shall we go for a drink?”
SARAH: I was so embarrassed, and so surprised... I ran out of the room! When I saw him in the coffee room the next time, I said “I was so surprised when you asked me, I scuttled away, without you being able to say when or where.” And so, we made an arrangement.
DENNIS: We went straight from the office to the pub across the road.
SARAH: We went to the… hmmm I think it's called the Horse and Dray.
DENNIS: And we chatted and chatted and er well, I listened mostly! She was very interesting, and I was living in the city center at the time, so I said, “well, I'm off now, I’m going to get some supper”.
SARAH: “I'm really hungry. I'd like to go for a meal”
DENNIS: “I was going to go take-away, and perhaps you know, perhaps you'd like to have that as well.” And she said “I can do better than that!” You know, “why don't I cook you a Chinese meal?”. So we drove out to her place.
SARAH: [laughing] And I can remember… starting to prepare the meal quite quickly and efficiently… And of course he was walking around, like people do, having a look at things.
DENNIS: I saw all the cookbooks around the bookshelves and in the kitchen and er, thought ‘hmm, this is, this is good... Someone who knows how to cook.’
SARAH: He told me later that he thought he had died and gone to heaven... because he had found a woman who likes to cook, and he liked to eat!
We had our meal, we had our glass of wine... we probably went into my little sitting room and erm, probably took the bottle of wine with us, and drink it all. And this is where I tell people that he never went home.
DENNIS: The next day, I went back and saw my present girlfriend and told her it was over. She wasn't very impressed [laughs].
MARIA: Equal Parts is produced by me, Maria Passingham. Thanks to Audio Network for the music, and to Sarah and Dennis for sharing their story with me when Equal Parts was just the spark of an idea.
The illustration for this episode is courtesy of Girl With The Radio Heart. You can find all artwork from the season at EqualPartsPodcast.co.uk as well as links to explore each artist’s social media and website.
Producing this season has taken over a year, with interviewing, recording, and editing juggled alongside other work, and... I’ve loved it. But it’s very demanding of time and energy, and… I don’t get paid for it. If you’ve enjoyed listening to Equal Parts, please show your support by making a donation. Think of it as a pay-what-you-want restaurant. You’ve eaten an eight-part, nourishing, romantic meal, and now you pay the bill. Best meal of your life? Lay a couple of hundred down. Think you could have just as much of a good time at the local chip shop? Gimme £2. Whatever you want, whatever you can will be plugged back into my efforts to bring you another fantastic season. Thank you.
OK, one more thing. I’m looking for new stories and new artists to feature in the next season of Equal Parts. If you want to be involved, or find out more about what it entails, please get in touch via the contact form on the website, or through the link in this episode description. That’s also the place to go if you want to feedback on any of the episodes you’ve heard this season… what you liked, what you didn’t like, what you want more of next time...
Oh and rate and review, tell your friends, share it on social media, shout it from the rooftops, [laughs] thank you very much for listening to this season. Bye for now.
Lucy & Ellie
ELLIE: In my mind, she spent the whole date watching the news, over my shoulder.
LUCY: I think we were both exhausted with dating and Tinder.
ELLIE: The start of a great love affair [laughs]. Passionate, passionate kisses were lacking.
MARIA: Welcome to equal parts, a series of true love stories told by the couples themselves. This week, keeping up appearances, the struggle and tedium of presenting your best self time and time again, in case this one turns out to be the one. Just a note, there's a few lights swears in this story.
ELLIE: I am Ellie. I'm from Preston… I suppose, or Blackburn, the Northwest. I'm a Sports Consultant, which sounds more glamorous than it really is, I suppose I help people to build 3G pitches, generally.
LUCY: My name is Lucy, and I'm from London and I work in a restaurant.
ELLIE: So we've been together probably just under a year and a half. We probably moved quite quickly. So we yeah, I say we've been together for 16 months, but we first met 16 months ago, from our Tinder date. Er and we, we've kind of grown together, I suppose. We now live together, which is a big change. And that happened quite early on. It's always been very easy.. we just became, yeah very close and easy and comfortable together.
We met a time when I was, erm I think I was a bit anxious and struggling a bit with London, erm and stuff that was going on with my family and my life, and she kind of, I think she came in at
the right time and called me down, maybe realise that everything's okay. And then helped me to become an awful lot more open, I… as you are when you're not in a relationship, or as I was, you do become very self reliant and erm insular, and she just makes me talk about my feelings all the time.
So [laughs] that's a thing now, we do talking about our feelings.
LUCY: We talked the other day about erm, she said [laughs], she said “it’s good we’re both women” [laughs]. But like, it just sounded so funny because it's like, it's such an obvious thing. I, of course we’re both women. It’s like ‘ah it’s a good thing’... Now we say all the time, because it's like a different level of communicating... It's like, which I don’t, I couldn't, I can't speak for heterosexual couples, but erm, it feels really, erm you don't have to consider anything. You can say anything. And you kind of know, erm because she’s a woman, and because I’m a woman, it’s, there’s a different level of understanding. I think.
ELLIE: So, we met on Tinder, and I don't- I think I must have been, just in my flat and I think it was probably like a Sunday evening.
LUCY: So I was in my best friend’s bed. And we were... watching a film I think? Orrr… yeah, I think we were watching film and I was on Tinder, just like, not concentrating film... And then yeah, I remember seeing her then and I remember talking to her then.
I remember her photos were quite outdoorsy. And, and I always, like when you're on Tinder, you do try and put across obviously, you choose four photos to put across… And she'd obviously thought, well, maybe she wouldn’t... actually probably hadn't thought about that [laughs] knowing her now [laughs]. Erm, but yeah, there was sort of one of her walking and one of her in San Francisco, in her, now I know it as her go-to pose in photographs, which is to just put your arms out as wide as you can with the background [laughs] so many photos [laughs].
Yeah. And I think I remember seeing that she was from Lancashire.
ELLIE: She spoke to me first, which I was like, ‘oh that’s’- weirdly for you know, female relationships... It's still like a bit of a game of chicken of like, the girl doesn't talk first, well that doesn't work does it if you're lesbians [laughs], then nobody’s talking [laughs].
All of her photos are completely different and also they look nothing like her. Well I remember looking at the photos and thinking well I don't know, I don't know who she is because... you know you're really blonde in one of them and then you're really not and then you just… something about the camera and Lucy means that she doesn't look like her.
She made some kind of lefty comments in her bio about 30 Rock and Clement Attlee, because she's intelligent, and you know, people need to know it [laughs]. Also she appreciates Tina Fey.
Erm, yeah, and I think we just talked kind of standard Tinder chat: “Hi, how are you?” And then I remember her saying that she was cooking dinner… And she was listening to the Bend It Like Beckham playlist. And I thought, ‘oh my god’. That's… well first of all: classic film.
LUCY: We talked about favourite films. And I remember she said... she definitely mentioned Bend It Like Beckham, and Billy Elliot, as being like top films ever. And I remember telling my friend this and she was like, “woah, that's cool”. I remember that really vividly.
ELLIE: And yeah, I just, I had this moment of ‘ooh, ok, well, that's a thing’. For you to say that completely unprompted. Erm, yeah, and then we just, I think spoke probably a couple of days and then I disappeared.
LUCY: Radio silence. Erm, and then she came back and she was like “sorry I just got really disillusioned with the whole online dating thing”.
ELLIE: I was like, ‘nah, not doing this anymore. Just meeting people that you have nothing in common with, wasting your evenings, going to rubbish bars and having rubbish wine.
LUCY: It's relentless, that’s the thing about it it's like...urgh. Urgh, gotta do the same… it's like, yeah it's like interviewing but trying to put your best self across, in a way that's sounds original.. Jeez, no thanks [laughs].
ELLIE: So I went away and then that promptly lasted two weeks, and then I came back again. I sent this really blunt message... that just said errr “I’m so sorry”, erm, I think I probably just answered the question that I had ignored… erm and said “sorry it's been a while, I can’t deal with this Tinder anymore, [laughs] it go depressing”. And she's like “ok, ok, yep, erm that’s… good to be honest.”
LUCY: I remember I was [laughs], I was in the loo of The Dove on Broadway market, actually on the loo texting her [laughs] about meeting the following day.
ELLIE: She was like, “ah, should we go for a date? Do you wanna come for a drink?”
LUCY: For our first date, we had arranged to go to a bar in Soho.
ELLIE: We'd been talking about drinks, or drinks that we liked. Erm, and we said we like a negroni. So she picked the, like this, really fancy bar. I think she must have maybe Googled ‘negroni Soho’, I don't know. She was there first which is unusual. I think she was early because she says I was late on our first date, but ah, I'm never late [laughs]. And she looked in the window and they were just these like middle aged men in suits.
LUCY: It just seemed really formal, and a bit spenny and a bit naff.
ELLIE: It looked really intimidating your first, first date.
LUCY: And I was like, ‘nah, I'm not gonna be able to relax in here.’
ELLIE: So she then text me and she was like “ah, I’ve seen it and we're not going there anymore.” I said, “ok, fine. I'm on my way, where are we going?”. We went to this grimy, grimy pub called The Crown and drank shit warm red wine.
LUCY: So, I was at the table with the drinks, already sat down.
ELLIE: I think I was still in work mode a little bit. I remember walking in there and being like “oh god,I don't know where she is”. Can you remember what she looks like given that all of her photos are completely different? Who is she?
LUCY: She walked in and she kind of did this thing I remember where she doesn't really - she didn't really look at me [laughs]. She just kind of, she went “hi, yeah, y’alright?” and then like, just kind of looked above eye level... she was still standing up and I was sitting down. And she was looking around the room above everyone's eye level... kind of at the ceiling [laughs].
Just like... you could feel the erm, awkwardness like it was palpable, so awkward. Erm, because it is, the initial is like ‘ah God’. When you’ve done it before as well, you're just like [sighs].
ELLIE: Yeah so I remember being like, peering at the table and thinking, ‘I'm pretty sure that's her.’ But... you don’t want to make a tit of yourself.
LUCY: I definitely recognised her instantly. And she was quite smiley, but you you could, you know, like a dog can smell fear….I think we were both... we've talked about this, but I think we were both exhausted with dating and Tinder. And so you don't, you like hedge your bets you don't... And I think because she'd been at work, it kind of felt like another... When she walked in I got the impression that it felt like another task, or maybe that's what I was projecting. Because that's maybe what I was feeling because you just think… ‘Don't’… yeah, ‘don't let yourself go... they'll probably be crazy’ [laughs].
ELLIE: I think I'd been somewhere maybe, ‘cause I work out of London quite a lot. I can't really remember… but I was wearing, like business clothes. I was wearing this like, yeah long black coat... I think I was probably dressed all in black. And had my like work backpack on.
LUCY: She had a… er Osprey Rucksack, like mine, but bigger. And, yeah, I think I probably said “ooh nice rucksack” [laughs] like a loser [laughs].
And then we drank seriously bad red wine... and just chatted. A lot. Just a lot of talk.
I can remember bits of what we talked about. It's tricky because I know what she thinks we talked about and I can't remember that…
ELLIE: This is where I can't really remember, and I know Lucy can and I'm feeling guilty now.
LUCY: Erm, I can remember… er we talked about work a lot. And then we talked about sport a lot.
ELLIE: Hockey and tennis, and her having a shit tennis partner. And I was like, “oh, I’ll, I'll play tennis with you”. But I'm really bad at tennis, she now knows that. Erm I was like ‘I’ll’... you know, ‘I’ll edge my way into your life’ [laughs].
LUCY: There was one anecdote she was telling me whereby she was working on a project at work. And she'd been in a meeting where there’d been a PowerPoint presentation, about... it was something to do with football, women, it was something to do with women's football, and one of the slides on the PowerPoint was just a picture of Clare Balding’s face. As if to say like, “and also Clare Balding would be a great selling point.” [laughs]. Which I thought was the funniest thing ever. So that was good. That was really funny.
Erm, and then, like, I know now that she was really hungry. So, so I didn't realise she was starving, but she likes to have three square meals a day. So she bought crisps and inhaled two packets of crisps. Both of them.
ELLIE: I think as, as a kind of attempt to… share them with my date, I opened them all the way out, but then just immediately inhaled the whole packet [laughs].
It’s like “yeah Lucy, um interesting about your life, yes. I just just need to finish my salt and vinegar first” [laughs].
LUCY: She opened them up like she was going to share them but... I did not have many [laughs]. And then, I remember I tripped on the way to the loo. That was cool. Didn't properly trip. I was like trying to get out of the table. She didn’t even notice. So it’s fine. I think I then said, “oh I just tripped”, she was like “huh?”.
ELLIE: I think, in my mind, she spent the whole date watching the news over my shoulder. She says no, but I think I was quite conscious that there was a telly over my shoulder. And [laughs] it just kept flashing. Lucy’s quite easily distracted, so...maybe she can't remember anything. She just knows exactly what happened in, in the world that day.
LUCY: So then we didn't go on somewhere. We just walked to the tube, and I think we just hugged... just a hug.
ELLIE: The most awkward hug goodbye.
LUCY: We definitely didn’t kiss.
ELLIE: I think she just suddenly got really nervous. She’d seemed so cool and relaxed and like taking everything in her stride the whole evening, and then she got to the tube and she was “oh god”. There should be some sort of public display of affection, but I don’t like public displays of affection.... So what I'm going to do is just kind of really awkwardly hug you then push you down the stairs [laughs]. “Off you go, bye.” Erm, yes, so then I was like ‘oh, ok. Is that? Did that go well? I was having a nice time but I’m now beginning to question [laughs] erm that we were on the same page.
LUCY: And then I texted her really quickly with like no game, and was like “I've got no game that was really good fun.”
ELLIE: The start of a great love affair [laughs]. Passionate, passionate kisses were lacking.
So second date, I think I was like well, she organised the first one, let’s be equal and fair about this, I’ll organise the second one. And because Lucy works shifts, erm at the pub, so she had the Sunday off. So I said, “let's go for Sunday lunch”, which I now realise... it's quite a lot [laughs]. I thought ‘ah great, I love a roast’.
Erm, she's got Sunday off... Sunday evening that's a bit weird, because in my life that's, you know, Mondays you go back to work... I've now realised that's not the same in Lucy’s life but erm, I didn't really think about it.
I asked my cousin, who lives in Islington “like do you know any good places to eat?” and she said “you should go to The Pig and Butcher...but you can't book”. So, I was like, ‘ok fine... I'll get down there a bit early’.
LUCY: We met about midday I think and then they didn't take bookings, so we got our name on the list and then we did like a small erm, bar crawl. There’s loads of pubs round there, so we just went for a little walk and found some pubs. Erm, and I remember her ability to navigate was
Staggering… um ly awful [laughs]. Just to like, literally, we were at Pub A and Pub B was round the block and it was like, a Herculean task. I remember that really vividly.
ELLIE: I didn't know London at all, and I really didn't know Islington, and I have a terrible sense of direction. So I got my Google maps out. And she called me out on it so early. She's like, “Ellie, that's, first of all, that's really lame, that you’re looking at your Google Maps. And second of all, it's literally around the corner.”
LUCY: We went to two, we first went... I think it was a pub called The Albion we went to for a drink. And then we went to another one around the corner called… The Draper's arms. And then… and then we went back to, I think it's called The Pig and Butcher… for lunch. It was a very nice meal. Proper roast.
ELLIE: Yeah, it was lovely. I think we just talked about our lives and ‘cause you don’t - when you meet somebody on a dating app, you don't know anything about them. You have to learn from
day one, so you're kind of like invested romantically… you know, where you both want it to go. But also you’re starting from you know square one.
LUCY: And then we went in search of I think coffee, but it was a Sunday night. So it was like everything was shut.
ELLIE: I think ‘cause we just didn't wanna go home, we wanted to stay out and be together... carry on the date. So we went to this bar and we had, I think we had like a coffee or something.
LUCY: It was disgusting. Erm [laughs] but it was fine, it was funny, we laughed about it.
ELLIE: And then Lucy had parked her bike not far away.
LUCY: And then we got to my bike. And was like, “right, well this is me”.. and then -
ELLIE: and then we had our first kiss
LUCY: We kissed.
ELLIE: Which was, which was great. But then Lucy was unlocking her bike and I didn't know what to do… I was like ‘do I just… do you just go? That's weird. But now I'm just like, hanging around watching her unlock her bike… pressurising her and being creepy and weird.
LUCY: I think during that meal, I realised I liked her.
ELLIE: And then I was like, almost kind of skipping home, that was so...like you just didn’t think about where the time went. And it was so nice. Easy, very easy. Our third date was less easy.
LUCY: And then we had the worst date ever! [laughs].
So the third date was the worst date ever. Um, for reasons that are pretty serious, um but that weren't disclosed to me, until very near the end of the date.
ELLIE: So first of all we went for dinner, at this… just [laughs] not great place in Soho with zero atmosphere and no lighting, so I couldn’t read the menu because I've got rubbish eyesight.
LUCY: There was something awkward about the seating... Down to everything, it just felt really like we've gone back a step.
ELLIE: I was in a really weird mood. But I was like, really trying to be like, ‘ok get it together, get it together, you like this girl, and be with it and fun’.
LUCY: And then we went to a comedy show at Soho Theatre which was actually brilliant…
ELLIE: We went to... a comedy show. So weird. Like, it was funny and Lucy thinks it's the funniest thing that's ever happened. I thought it was funny, but also surreal and really strange.
LUCY: And actually thinking about it, the reason I kind of, like I knew she was very, very cool and I knew we were going to get on was that this show that was like, nine times out of 10 a person would have been like what the ___ is this? Like, this is bizarre.
ELLIE: So the comedy show was… [sighs] I can't remember what it was called. But it was basically a woman dressed as an egg… she, she was a chicken but she was dressed as an egg, so that makes no sense [laughs] and she was laying children... laying eggs.
LUCY: It was a real egg. It was in her, she was wearing like a unitard, she so she must have had eight or nine eggs in her unitard.
ELLIE: And every time she had to decide whether she was going to keep this child-egg to become another chicken-egg, erm and like try and help it grow... or eat it, so, so that she could be... stay alive?
LUCY: It has been in Edinburgh… and I just... and I wanted to go see Hannah Gatsby before Hannah Gatsby was Hannah Gatsby. And I was like ‘ah that would be so good’ but obviously sold out.
ELLIE: And anyway, Lucy was laughing louder than anybody else in the whole place. When Lucy laughs you can hear it... her laugh is quite distinctive. So, if you go to a comedy gig where the room’s a bit tense, but she's having the time of her life, it’s just laughing so loud.
LUCY: We saw Alison Steadman she was there... but anyway that's a different story, we were both like “oh my god it’s Alison Steadman” [laughs].
Anyway, so weirdest comedy show I’ve ever been to... but also one of the best, one of the funniest. And then afterwards we had a drink and she was just like in another realm, and wasn't… we were back to kind of like, I felt like I was working. She was like not communicating.
And I was like “what’s going on?”.
ELLIE: I couldn't hold in what was going on in the rest of my life… it's another weird one where you meet somebody you don't know them, but you’re kind of trying to share yourself with them, but also you don't want to share too much of yourself because that’s a whole lot... and it's not very organic at all.
But I'd had, erm, a hard day. So my mum had just had surgery that day. She was quite ill and, that's why I was all over the place.
LUCY: I was like “well, what are we doing?” Like, “what are you doing?”, just like, you know? And this is the, like, urgh. Urgh. It was so much! [laughs]. So I was really shocked that she’d even entertained the idea of coming out that night, I was like, “what, why” you know, “babe, like, uh-uh, look after yourself”.
ELLIE: I was like, “look, I'm really sorry. Erm, I’ve had a really hard day, I know I'm not really being super fun.” And she was like “ok, that’s oof, ok”. But she really took it in her stride and that's a kind of, a quality that she’s shown time and time again. I'll be getting het up about things... or things which are quite dramatic happening in your life, and she puts them into perspective. Or says, you know, “it’s really rubbish, but you’re gonna be fine and, we'll, we'll get through it”. It's always 'we’, “we’re a team, we’ll get through it”... and, and that did kind of put me at ease, it was like ok, so she hasn't run away. I've told her this big thing about what's been going on in my life for the past year.
LUCY: Yeah. That was a big like, I was so… because I knew something was up like as I said, I sensed it in the restaurant that she was, something else was on her mind… but we don't, you know, we'd met each other twice I wasn't going to pry and be like “what's going on? What's going on with you?”. You just have to, deal with it. But we still had a lovely time and I think the bizarre, like the crazy crazy crazy egg show was a... was a good distraction. I remember telling people at work and they were like, “you went on date to see that?” [laughs] I was like “yeah! went really well!” [laughs] “she loved it” [laughs]
ELLIE: I must have just trusted her, to kind of be like, ‘here you go, here's my… here's all my shit….[laughs] you can have that on date three. So obviously for next date I just made her meet all my friends [laughs] erm, went to a house party… and from then on she was initiated and we couldn’t go back. So there we go, plan worked.
MARIA: Equal Parts is produced by me, Maria Passingham. Thanks to Audio Network for the music, and of course thanks to Lucy and Ellie too.
Original artwork this week comes from Chelsea Waites, visit equalpartspodcast.co.uk to see her interpretation and click through to her Instagram which is full of gorgeous, playful illustrations.
Next week is the final episode of this season. If you like what you’ve heard please rate and review on Apple Podcasts, and recommend Equal Parts to a friend.
The final tale is one of copy-machines, cats and cooking.
SARAH: He was quite senior to me and I was a bit nervous. He had the door slightly open and I knocked on it, and asked him if he knew about the photocopier… and he didn’t, but of course, being ‘a man’ he wanted to come and show me and work it out anyway.
DENNIS: I think she came into my office with an agenda.
Davide & Nick
DAVIDE: I was living in Scotland, but I felt it was not the place for me. And I was still looking for a place, where to stay...as long as it feels like home, and Nick really felt like home.
NICK: We hadn’t even said anything to each other and we just kissed, and then after a few seconds, I was just laughing because I was thinking ‘this isn’t life, this isn’t what happens’.
DAVIDE: I noticed, he took out a picture of ours, from his pocket, I was like ‘what’s this?’, and then he started folding the picture, and I was thinking ‘oh my goodness, something big is happening’.
MARIA: Welcome to Equal Parts, a series of true love stories, told by the couples themselves.
In most romances, lips are for kissing. In this one, they play a vital part in communication. Here’s Davide and Nick who recently celebrated their third anniversary.
DAVIDE: So I’m Davide, I come from Italy, but I’ve been living in UK for the past five years, and I’m a material scientist by training, er but at the moment I’m working as a teacher for the deaf.
NICK: I’m Nick, I was born in Sheffield, and I live in Manchester, and for my job I’m a researcher, I work at a university researching sign language.
DAVIDE: Well we have a couple of anniversaries, we have one anniversary in December, and one anniversary in January, and we celebrated our January anniversary a couple of weeks ago, and it was a very exciting anniversary.
When I met him, I was just coming out of a relationship that, wasn’t very important probably, wasn’t very deep but er somehow when my ex-boyfriend broke up with me it just left me distraught and er depressed for a couple of months.
Then I met Nick, and erm, we really ticked immediately. And since then we, both of us, grew so much. One of the most beautiful things for me, of Nick, is that he let me into his life very quickly, so he wanted me to meet all his friends, his family very soon, and so many different things, and erm, it really feels like I could ‘belong’ to someone, I could belong somewhere and back then I was really looking for a place to belong to… because coming from Italy, I was living in Scotland, but I felt it was not the place for me. And I was still looking for a place, where to stay for a longer period of time that wasn’t strictly three years/five years, doesn’t matter but, as long as it feels like home, and Nick really felt like home.
So I come from Verona, and the only direct flight from Britain to Verona, back then was from Manchester, or London. So usually what I used to do was, travel by train or by bus from Glasgow to Manchester, and then fly from there. It was December 2015 and er it was Christmas time, so I wanted to go back for Christmas. And I booked my flight, I booked my train, I had to stay over in the airport, overnight.
NICK: And he had done this previously, so flying from Manchester airport with a very early morning flight. And previously he had missed that flight.
DAVIDE: So I look for a bench, where to spend the night basically, in the airport. I was waiting on this bench and I was, yeah I was coming out of this relationship and I was looking for somebody else, er so I was on dating apps.
NICK: I’ve long used a dating website, OK Cupid. Which I really liked because they ask you lots of questions about yourself, about what you think, but also cleverly they ask you how important something is, so maybe you don’t like football but that’s not important to you, so if the other person does like football but it’s not important to you then that’s ok.
DAVIDE: So you could be like yeah, I’m totally a tory supporter, but I don’t mind if he’s, or she is, a labour supporter.
NICK: Whereas, you know if you think that flag burning is wrong, and that’s a passionately held belief, then you don’t want to meet someone who burns flags every other Tuesday, so... it’s a clever website.
DAVIDE: I really believe that what brings people together are values, rather than simply like. Because you know I can go out with my friends to something I like but I need to live with somebody that shares some beliefs somehow. So you put on all these answers, and eventually Nick’s profile came up and I saw it, we were very very compatible, like 90% compatible? It’s like, no way.
NICK: I think I was at home in Sheffield, with my parents, and he was at Manchester airport. Fortunately my phone was not state of the art, so I think my phone still thought I was in Manchester even though I was in Sheffield. So, yes up he came and we had a bit of a chat. He told me that he was from Verona, which immediately made me think of Shakespeare, so all of a sudden I was one of the gentleman of Verona.
DAVIDE: We liked each other and he messaged me straight away, I was like ‘oh finally somebody who makes the first move… usually on these apps people are just like tip-toeing around which is so annoying I’m like ‘we like each other clearly, just do something’. I always have to make the first step.
This time was like, mmm good. And then, yeah we hit it off very quickly. We moved very quickly from the messaging in the app to WhatsApp.
NICK: We kept in touch, he was in Italy, I was here. And then I flew to Australia for a conference, a few days before he flew back to the UK to continue with his research.
DAVIDE: So, we couldn’t meet for basically one month. So we text each other for one month, we skyped at some point, which was really nerve-wracking.
NICK: I remember, being nervous about it. And also he was in his house, the family house in Italy, and he was using his mobile phone, so it was one of those situations where you can’t find anything around you , any surface, on which to rest the phone and it ends up toppling over, so one minute it’s him, the next minute the ceiling, and a bit of wall in the corner, and some cobwebs… all sorts of different things that I could see, so I really got to know his house quite well but I didn’t really get to see that much of him while we were skyping.
DAVIDE: And on top of that, after a few texts, erm I realised he was deaf. You know when you text somebody you don’t need to know that he’s deaf or not… and I’m not sure I picked it from his profile, I should have because he mentioned sign language a couple of times, but… so when we skyped the first time I was really scared that he wouldn’t read my lips or we wouldn’t be able to communicate in anyway but it was fine.
NICK: I do remember that it was quite easy to lipread him, which was a nice surprise for me, because that was something that I was worried about I think, the first time as a deaf person I was chatting with him, trying to work out whether that side of things, the communication side of things, whether that was going to work or not, so it was quite a relief to find out that it did.
DAVIDE: So I found out that Nick was deaf, and at first I was a little bit like ‘oh my goodness’ I had known nothing about deaf people. He was a tiny little bit, preachy, or anyway he put on his teacher hat, or his like, activist hat, so he was like “yeah deaf people, deaf community, deaf culture...blah blah blah” I was like “wow”, but I was super eager to learn.
Actually, er months later I found out in my old diaries that on my to-do list for the new year was sign language, so it’s funny that somehow, it was years back, I wanted to learn sign language but was in another country so it wouldn’t have worked anyway, but now finally I’m learning sign language.
NICK: So I was teaching him some signs. I remember filming myself going through the paradigm of questions - what, who, where, when - that kind of thing. And then sending them to him, and then he would film himself and send that back, and it was so beautiful, I mean we hadn’t even met but he was trying so hard to learn my sign language. But the thing is, I mean when you ask questions in sign language your eyebrows are really important, you have to raise or lower your eyebrows and his eyebrows were going all over the place.
So I gave him a sign name, which we deaf people do, we give people like a sign, that becomes their name. And this sign is just two fingers that represent the eyebrows going up and down quite wildly, very sort of franetic. So that’s Davide’s sign name, and that’s continued until this day really. And it wasn’t until the 15th of January that we met in person.
DAVIDE: The first time we met was, erm, a little bit of a gamble but we knew that we really wanted to date each other basically. We felt really confident that it was going very well. So we decided to meet halfway. I was in Glasgow, he was in Manchester, halfway means the Lake District, so let’s book a weekend together in the Lake District, as soon as possible.
NICK: So we met halfway, in Penrith. And I suppose I was a bit nervous, but also I felt very relaxed about it in some ways, because, I don’t know we, I felt at ease with him, it was… I had a feeling that it wasn’t going to be difficult, that there were not going to be any surprises or anything like that.
DAVIDE: We booked a B&B, he planned everything, I have never been to the lake District before so it was a total surprise and holiday for me as well. Erm, I booked a train ticket on the Friday night, I went down to Penrith. His train was a little bit delayed so I was really really nervous, waiting in the waiting room.
NICK: I remember the train journey up to Penrith. I remember making sure I was minty fresh, and um, and then I got off the train onto the platform, and there he was.
DAVIDE: And I like, basically jumped very nervously towards him, and we straight off kissed each other. So it was a very beautiful kiss on the platform, in Penrith. It was very very dark, it was cold, freezing cold, but it was very very beautiful.
NICK: He had made um, a paper rose, with like red tissue paper.
DAVIDE: I always think that, I would be so happy if my date erm, would bring me roses, flowers, on a date, so I thought ok, now it’s my turn, but instead of bringing like fresh flowers because you know, we were going on a walk, it wouldn’t have been feasible, so I just made er paper roses.
NICK: The fact that he had, gone to the trouble to make something and he had the courage to bring that, it was beautiful, it was so moving. And I think if I remember it wasn’t just paper roses, he also made some soap, in the shape of a heart. I think that was homemade soap, pink in the shape of a heart, and I’ve still got that as well.
I mean it was just the most romantic thing, we just walked towards each other and kissed so and, we hadn’t even said anything to each other and we just kissed, and then after a few seconds, I was just laughing because I was thinking ‘this isn’t life, this isn’t what happens’ you know ‘this is something from a very bad or a very good Hollywood rom-com, it didn’t… I didn’t realise that I would ever experience anything like that, but it was the most romantic moment of my life. I’ve never had anything like that, before or since really.
DAVIDE: The following day we made a very long walk around, he had planned everything so… We really liked each other, we got it, so we, yeah we didn’t need much talking or much… we just need to get to know each other, but we had skyped so much and we had text so much, we had talked about many many different things, important things for each other, so yeah it was all very very easy.
NICK: We decided to go for a walk, I think I’d printed off a route already, a very ambitious route I think, we were supposed to be going 28 miles or something which obviously didn’t happen in the space of a day. It was very cold, I mean it was mid-January, and there was lots of snow around if I remember, it was very beautiful, I mean, very cold but beautiful. And we both like noticing things and spotting things, so we saw icicles that were dangling from um, suspended from branches over the river, and there was frost covering the stones and the hedges and things like that, it was very romantic.
DAVIDE: We went by a castle, and I said “oh, are we not going to see the castle?” and he was like “mm no, I thought we wouldn’t go this time, we’ll go another time, let’s just say ‘hi’ from afar”. I was like “ok fair enough, it doesn’t matter”.
NICK: There was a henge, a neolithic henge -
DAVIDE: A prehistoric thingy with a single stone in the middle of a circle, which is very beautiful, only the built the M6 next to it, so it was super loud with cars… it doesn’t matter for him because he’s deaf [laughs].
NICK: And so we stopped there and I’d brought us a flask of coffee - I’m a practical Northerner - we had a flask of coffee and some cake, and I remember sitting at the edge of this henge, so this sort of flat circular area with this embankment around it, and I looked at him, and I remember thinking this is a really special person. I mean, I’m not sure I would said I fell in love with him there, but that was a moment where I just thought ‘this is special, there’s something special going on here’.
DAVIDE: We’ve talked about weddings on the first date, because I really wanted to make clear that um, I was looking for something long-term and that my plans, or dreams, or wishes in the future were, I didn’t want to scare him off, but I felt he was the right guy to talk about it early on, to show that I could commit. Nick somehow gave me the opportunity for a plan in the future, like with him it really felt like yeah, it’s a long-term commitment.
NICK: There was a really strange moment when we had to say goodbye, I mean again, we were at Penrith train station, it seems to be the emotional centre of the world to us, or something like that i don’t know, but um, he had to go North, and I had to go South so, I remember saying goodbye, and wanting to sort of punch the air, because everything had gone so well. But then, feeling that I would miss him, and wondering how we would make the transition again, from being present with each other and then going back to being apart, and wondering how that would work out. And I think we weren’t meeting again for another two or three weeks, and that felt like quite a long time.
But for me, I think the advantage of him being in Glasgow and me being in Manchester, it was that it kind of gave our relationship in the early days, a bit of pace, so it meant that we didn’t have to rush into things, that wasn’t a kind of overkill. I mean, I’m a very old-fashioned sort of person in some ways. My parents tell me about courting, back in the 70s, when everything sort of moved forwards inch by inch, and it was all so incremental, and you’d meet every Friday for twenty years, and then you’d meet twice a week, and that was the big change, so… and I think that there is something in that in a way, something hopeful about having a sort of a paced introduction.
So the fact that we lived in different cities actually gave us a bit of space and it gave us some time to kind of grow into each other.
NICK: So, a couple of weeks ago, when we were celebrating our anniversary -
DAVIDE: I said “shall we go on a walk somewhere nice?” and he said “where do you want to go?”, I was like “shall we go back to the Lake District, we haven’t been back for a long time?”. He said “ok fair enough, I’ll think about booking, sorting it out”, I was like “ok you do it”.
We went up to Penrith again, on a Friday night again, we just wanted to stay for one night, one day. Um, we booked the same B&B that we should have stayed three years before, but back then, the owner of the B&B had to go away on a weekend, so this time we said “ok, we’re going to stay in the place where we should have stayed three years ago”, perfect.
This time, he said “I’m going to take you to the castle”, it was like ‘ooh exciting’. So we went to the castle, and then we continued our walk, and I said “are we going to do a different walk?”, he was like “no shall we do the same walk, I mean, it’s being our anniversary so we might as well”, fine, I was being very very silly. And at some point I was doing the Bird Box challenge, so I pretended to be blindfolded and he was like guiding me, erm anyway, I was being this silly, I was walking around and jumping around, and he was behind me.
I stopped at the big stone in the middle, and he reached me finally, and I noticed he took out a picture of ours, from his pocket. I was like ‘what’s this?’. Does he want to like, uh, hide it in the ground, or like, I don’t know, put it down as a memory for the future? Like ‘oh that’s such a nice idea’. And then he started folding the picture, and he was so moved he was in tears - Nick gets moved so easily - and I was thinking ‘oh my goodness, something big is happening’ and he folded the picture into a ring origami, which is very very sweet, and it was a perfect ring with a diamond in the centre, and he folded it so quickly, and I was, I didn’t know whether to cry or to laugh, he knelt down, and it was all muddy, so I was worried as well like “please please please, it’s muddy” [laughs] anyway he said “vuoi sposarmi?”, so in Italian “do you want to marry me?”, I was laughing a bit, I was, not crying but very very moved, and of course I said yes, so yeah now we are engaged, officially [laughs]. In a very funny way, like we do most of our things.
NICK: I always knew that that was going to be the place that I should propose to him. So that’s beside the M6, but you see the thing is about being deaf, you don’t hear the traffic… he did, poor thing, but for me it was, it was silent and frosty, and we could see the snow-covered mountains of the Lake District in the distance, and it was really quite something.
The thing is we’d always talked about getting married, so we both knew it was something that we wanted to do. And then I wanted to get married in my church, so they are hopefully going to change the rules in a year or two. So I told him that I wanted to wait for that, but then in the meantime, I thought ‘life is too short’ so there are other churches that we could get married in now, so… I changed my mind and I decided to propose to him. So I think that’s why he was surprised, because he thought that I was set on waiting another year or two before I asked him.
DAVIDE: We’re both religious, he’s Methodist, I’m Catholic, so Catholic will never, er let me get married, and it’s fine, but with Methodist, they’re deciding about it, and they might agree on it next year. So we said “ok let’s wait for 2020 and then let’s get married in 2021, it’s fine.
There was no question about if, it was a question of when. So, now we know when… or we don’t know yet but we know that it’s happening very soon.
He’s so good at lipreading, one day he told me “you know that you say ‘love’ wrong”, and I was like “sorry?” and he was like “yeah yeah, you say love like Italians, and you should say love.” I’m like [laughs] “but how do you know that I say love or whatever?”, he’s like “I can see from your lip pattern” I’m like “what?!” so yeah [laughs] I think he could pick up a lot, my accent, the way I was saying words wrong, or whatever, or different. I think if I do it in a very funny, cheeky, Northern way it’s much easier to say love rather than saying love, no no it’s doesn’t, I can’t make it [laughs].
MARIA: Equal Parts is produced by me, Maria Passingham. Thanks to Audio Network for the music, and congratulations to Davide and Nick on your engagement.
Hannah Lyons created the gorgeous artwork for this week’s episode, which you can see on our website.
There’s also a transcript for this, and every episode, of Equal Parts, for those who are deaf or prefer reading. You can find everything at equalpartspodcast.co.uk
Next week, a match made in musical heaven, even if they now disagree on what that music was.
JAY: She worked in the bar, and they had one of these digital jukebox things where you’d just mess around with the songs and I think, weirdly enough we both went up at the same time and was gonna choose the same song.
BECKY: And my friend who was the landlord, said to me, randomly out of nowhere, “oh you’re going to marry that guy” and then walked off!
Duncan & Anna
DUNCAN: She had a lot of attention that night so I was just like, ‘this isn’t going to happen, she’s the Birthday girl, it’s her 30th, she’s got, you know, a room full of friends’
ANNA: We said nothing, looked at each other, eyes lock, kissed, and then moved off and carried on [laughs].
DUNCAN: It all kicked off, [laughs] and chaos ensued, and then I didn’t really see her again, for a long time.
MARIA (host): Welcome to Equal Parts, a series of true love stories, told by the couples themselves. This week, a third time’s the charm tale which proves that true love conquers all: time, distance, and even garlic-sauce kebab breath.
ANNA: I’m Anna, and I’m a primary school teacher, and I live in London.
DUNCAN: Hi I’m Duncan Brown, I’m a UX designer, and I live in Kilburn, which is in North West London.
ANNA: We’ve been together for…. 12 years, we’re coming into… I guess this is 13th year? Yeah. Yeah, 12 years.
So, Duncan and I are both from the same town, and it’s the sort of town where if, er you are… wanting to drink when you’re 14 or 15 and be hedonistic and push the boundaries and take risks, everyone’s trying to do it in the same two pubs in the town. So you all see each other and you all sort of casually get to know each other.
DUNCAN: We met when we were, erm, I was kind of in my late teens, I’m like two years older than Anna, in our hometown, which is in the midlands: Grantham.
ANNA: He was part of the cool, boy college gang as far as I was concerned. Totally fit, totally thought he was gorgeous but very much aloof, and I actually started dating ne of his friends. And I can remember er, Dunc had a party, erm which always amazed me because my family were incredibly straight and I would never have dared thrown a house party, ever. Erm, but his parents were great and went away and trusted them or, you know he was cool enough to take the risk, er and it was just this sort of very cool atmosphere, it was just a great party.
DUNCAN: Erm, actually Anna was going out with one of my friends.
ANNA: Julian was in the loo, I was stood outside the loo, and Duncan sort of came up to me and we had a kiss.
DUNCAN: We had a little kiss, at my parents’ house.
ANNA: He literally looked at me, I looked at him, and he says I kissed him, and I say he kissed me, so that is still an ongoing argument. Erm but we kind of just had this weird moment in time, I can picture it now, we said nothing, looked at each other, eyes lock, kissed, and then moved off and carried on [laughs].
DUNCAN: That was around 1991, so that’s quite a while ago.
ANNA: Yeah, that was when we were 17? Erm, Duncan’s two years older, so they all soon went off to college.
DUNCAN: Obviously people kind of go to university, go off get jobs, so I didn’t really see Anna a great deal.
ANNA: And I went off travelling after university,
DUNCAN: And then… she came back from Australia.
ANNA: To Newcastle, where I had done my degree, to do my teaching course.
DUNCAN: And she was, happened to be in Grantham by chance, and I was at my erm Step Brother’s wedding, and the wedding finished and a few of us went into town, and bumped into Anna in the nightclub.
I was in a suit, which was a bit weird, because you don’t wear suits to nightclubs [laughs. Erm, and Anna was there with some friends, and Anna was very, she was pleased to see everyone, and we kind of chatted and again we had a bit of a kiss. But unfortunately Anna was way more drunk than I was, even though I’d been at a wedding and I should have been the most drunk, but Anna beat me on that one.
We were getting on quite well and then she lost her purse, and it all kicked off [laughs] and chaos ensued, and then I didn’t really see her again, for a long time. Sadly. So it was like two false starts, in a way.
DUNCAN: So the third time we got together, erm it was, I was living in London, and Anna was up in Newcastle, and we just hadn’t really seen each other for years.,
ANNA: It was crazy, we first kissed each other when we were 17, I’m now 30 and have had enough of Newcastle. I was like, I’m not going to live in the North for ever. If I wasn’t a Geordie I was never really going to belong. But I think I was just a bit bored, I just wanted to have something new. I had amazing friends, but just needed some change. And it just seems fateful now, because I was moving down south the week afterwards.
DUNCAN: It was Anna’s 30th and she was having a party in Newcastle. So my best friend, he, he got the invite.
ANNA: And so Jamie said to me “oh, Dunc Brown’s coming as well” and I was like “oh, great, lovely”, thinking ‘I always fancied him, that’s amazing’. I remember saying to my girlfriends, “oh, Jamie’s coming from Grantham, Tim’s coming, oh and another Tim, and um, and Duncan”. And they were just like “yes, no kissing any Grantham boys Anna. You know. We know what you Grantham lot are like, it’s incredibly incestuous, you’ve all kissed each other when you were teenagers, just none of that”.
DUNCAN: So I was kind of invited, and I think in hindsight my friend was playing cupid, erm, so we’re all kind of organised to go up.
ANNA: The 30th was all planned, it was July, and… it’s really horrible because it’s 2005 and that was when the 7/7 bombings happened.
DUNCAN: The London bombings kicked off.
ANNA: So completely, nothing like London or England’s ever known, and it was just eurgh. Hideous, hideous stuff.
DUNCAN: It was a big, sad event, and it was really odd. So all the trains were, were down.
ANNA: Part of that was, the boys that were all coming up from London couldn’t come to the party. So, ok, there’s bigger things than my Birthday.
DUNCAN: And suddenly I was like, damn I really wanted to see Anna.
ANNA: Jamie, the great friend that he is, was like “I think I‘m going to go and get the boys from London.” He drove all the way down from the North East, to London, picked them all up and drove them back again, all so we could all have this party, which… I still don’t really know why, why he made such an effort. He’s a great guy.
DUNCAN: Erm, so we managed to get a train out up to Grantham which was like the halfway point, because the trains were like just really up in the air as you can probably imagine, after all that bombing business. Erm, but anyway, we stayed at my parents’ for the Friday night, and then kind of journeyed up to Newcastle and made it to the party which was wicked. Er, and got to see Anna.
ANNA: We had this big party, in… I’m going to say the Pitcher and Piano, which sounds really naff, and it is in every other city but Newcastle. Only because the Pitcher and Piano in Newcastle [laughs] and admittedly it was new and exciting then, it’s on the banks of the river Tyne, and the entire floor to ceiling glass walls, which again, this sounds really ridiculous this many years later, but at the time it was very nice [laughs]. My Birthday’s in July so there’s an outside bit and it you know, it felt great. And all these people came up from London going “ooh actually Newcastle’s really lovely [laughs].
DUNCAN: Arrived at the pub, it was like this lovely pub overlooking the Tyne, and there was Anna, at the centre of everything and, she was er, she was lovely, she was so warm and friendly with all of her friends, and all her friends were like, just a great bunch. And I was quite kind of, taken aback.
And she looked amazing and I was just like ‘wow’. I was definitely interested. I think eventually we got talking, obviously she had a lot of attention that night so I was just like, ‘this isn’t going to happen, she’s the Birthday girl, it’s her 30th, she’s got, you know, a room full of friends”.
ANNA: I just remember having an incredible time, and we then after the pub, we went off to this local nightclub. Now I don’t know how much you know Newcastle but it doesn’t have the reputation for the coolest nightclubs particularly, but World Headquarters is the bit, the club that we sort of discovered when we were students.
DUNCAN: It’s funny ‘cause [laughs] we had a little kiss in the venue, which Anna doesn’t remember, ‘cause she was having a great time and she’d drank a lot of champagne. Erm, she thinks that the first kiss was when we got to World Headquarters which is this kind of meat market in Newcastle [laughs], erm she remembers that, but I remember the bits before.
ANNA: I think, this is the problem. I can’t actually remember when we had our first kiss, and we have debated this. Now I’m told it was outside of the Pitcher and Piano, erm which we then did a staggering walk to World Headquarters, then proceeded the very exciting - snog session I suppose you’d say? Of me and Duncan going from the three floors of World Headquarters trying to sneak off and have little cuddles and kisses away from the masses of everyone at the party. Erm I think we probably didn’t want everyone going “oh my goodness”, so yeah that was erm a lot of fun, and we were just having the best time. And I remember that really really vividly.
DUNCAN: It was like this multi-floor horrible club full of nutters, and we just kept sneaking off up to the next floor to have a little kiss, which was yeah, which was great, ‘cause I’m like “it’s your Birthday and you wanna come and do this with me?” it’s like, lovely.
ANNA: After World Headquarters we all, really classily went, as you do, to the kebab shop [laughs].
DUNCAN: [laughing] which was like, yeah of course she would do that. And we had a kebab and then kind of said our goodbyes.
ANNA: And I can remember us all standing there outside, and him giving me the “so…”.
DUNCAN: I think I was a gentleman, and was like, wasn’t pushing to go back to hers in any way.
ANNA: “Can I come home with you?” [laughs] and it was great because he really couldn’t. Because I was moving down south the week afterwards, and this is the weird thing. He lives in London and I was planning to move to Brighton that very next week, everything was done, my house was packed up, I was staying at my friend’s, so he couldn’t come and stay.
DUNCAN: I also think she probably had a house full of people, so that was never going to happen. But mainly I was being a gentleman and didn’t wanna push it.
Erm, and also when I got back, ‘cause all the guys were staying in this kind of like rented er kind of like apartment thing, and I got home, and a friend had filled my erm my favourite trainers with water and put them in the freezer! [laughs] for some bizarre reason, but he was really mad because it actually cleaned them and they felt brand new again, which was really cool. He got really mad. And I also think he liked Anna a bit.
ANNA: The next day we all planned to meet each other, erm post hangovers, compare stories you know all of that. And so we met in some really random weird pub that the boys had decided because it was near where they were all staying, and I just remember that you know, that nervous thing of you’ve just kissed somebody the night before, how is it going to be?
DUNCAN: I was like, really hungover, an a bit nervous, it’s like ‘is Anna gonna remember anything? Is she gonna like… what’s gonna happen?’ and er -
ANNA: The first thing he did was he just came up to me straight away and gave me a kiss.
DUNCAN: Luckily she just came up and came and gave me a big kiss and it was just like ‘yep that’s great’.
ANNA: And I just thought that was great.
DUNCAN: Thank god, this is a good sign.
ANNA: There was no kind of ‘oh I’m going to act all cool and pretend last night didn’t happen and de dah de dah.’ I just loved that erm and then, I don’t know we hung out for an hour or two and then they all had to make their separate ways, and I can still remember him walking off, you know as we’d all said our goodbyes, then turned around and looked back.
DUNCAN: I was like, you know, ‘maybe something can happen’. But, then we played that game where it’s like, we’ve got each other’s phone numbers, it’s like who’s gonna send a text, how long do you wait, I don’t want to seem overly keen although I was dying to obviously send Anna a text.
ANNA: And it was great because he texted I think the next day or something. He didn’t do that horrible, let’s wait forever and yeah, which would have been… urgh.
DUNCAN: I think there was a text, maybe a couple of days after the party? And I don’t know who it was from. I’m gonna say Anna [laughs], she was more keen to chase me. No, I doubt it, I think it was probably definitely me, yeah.
ANNA: So he, texted the next day, or fairly promptly, maybe two days later, and then we started this text thing that week and I was like ‘how do you ever shift it, now from this to moving it on’.
Erm, the following week was my brother’s wedding. Got completely emotional, drunk and emotional as you do at weddings and I was completely overawed by the grandeur of my brother getting married. And so, after oodles of wine and Dutch courage, I just thought ‘stuff this, I’m not doing this keep it cool’ you know, and I just remember sitting by, outside the wedding, by some, you know dumpster or something I don’t know, by the bins… calling Duncan, half crying, because I’d just cried about how emotional I was about the wedding, and he was at a party.
DUNCAN: And she called me from her brother’s wedding and I was so happy. And we talked for quite a white, and then I kind of bored the entire party with this Anna that I’d just been talking to and everyone was just like… they could see how happy I was.
ANNA: Somewhere there we must have made a plan that we were going to see each other…. I think I was coming to London to go on holiday perhaps? Because it was coming up to July and I’m a teacher, and I think my summer was pretty planned. I seem to think I had two holidays planned, but er we made some sort of plan where I was coming through London and I was going to see him.
DUNCAN: I remember she got off, she got a train up to Brighton and I met her in Victoria on the platform.
ANNA: I went to his in Willesden, his place, and he’d made a real effort, and did a barbeque in the garden, and he was very quiet I remember that
night, he just seemed to be, we just seemed to be quite… looking at each other? And I was gibbering on as I do… that was our first sort of proper, one-to-one date I guess, in his back garden in Willesden in the summer, which was absolutely fantastic.
DUNCAN: I knew that I wanted definitely to be long-term with Anna, but there were just all this kind of, holidays in the way, and erm distance in the way, but I think it just kinda sorted itself out, we just started, got into this habit of, I would come down to Brighton straight after work on the Friday and stay with Anna and then vice versa, we kinda like started to take it in turns.
ANNA: Sunday evening are the best time to just be snuggly and together and chill out and have your downtime together.
DUNCAN: I don’t remember the moment where we decided that we were a thing. I probably decided in my mind, that, you know, that, right at the party in Newcastle.
ANNA: I think we both knew we wanted to be together and it was where we were going to live. You know, we’d done three years of long distance, and it’s like, where do we live, London or Brighton? Duncan had been in London since he was 18, I’d only just moved to Brighton three years ago, I was loving it…
I think actually I was happy to move to London, I just wanted to know that Dunc would move to Brighton [laughs]. We had chats about it, but I just remember one day, Dunc went “I’ll move to Brighton” and that’s when I remember saying “great, that’s brilliant, I want to move to London” [laughs] and he’s like “brilliant! I don’t have to leave London!”, I just needed to hear him say he would have done, yeah. And I cannot imagine living anywhere else now, erm we’ve, we moved in together nearly 10 years ago, got our flat, made that our own together.
DUNCAN: Anna is… probably the happiest person I’ve ever met. And the most fun, and the warmest, and friendly, and she’s just amazing.
ANNA: In the last however many years I think it just changes from, you just feel so safe and secure and content I guess, yeah.
DUNCAN: Does Julian know we kissed? Erm I’m not sure, but it was really funny because a few years into Anna and I being an item we got invited to Julian’s wedding [laughs] and Anna was like “oh my god, should we go?” and I’m like “what you talking about, of course we should go, it’s Ju, he’s getting married!”. Yeah I kind of pulled Anna’s leg saying there’s going to be this big Graduate scene, in the middle of the wedding where Julian turns around and goes “no, Anna, Anna’s the one for me” but no, that was a wicked wedding. I passed out on an EasyJet flight on the way home [laughs].
MARIA: Equal Parts is produced by me, Maria Passingham. Thanks to Audio Network for the music, and of course, to Duncan and Anna.
Each episode of Equal Parts has an accompanying piece of original artwork. Sophie Linney drew this week’s image, which you can see at equalpartspodcast.co.uk. There’s also links there to discover more of her work.
Next week, reading the signs.
NICK: He had made a paper rose, with like, red tissue paper.
DAVIDE: I always think that, I would be so happy if my date would bring me roses on a date, so I thought ok, now it’s my turn to bring flowers.
NICK: The fact that he had, gone to the trouble to make something and he had the courage to bring that, I mean it was just the most romantic thing.
Sarah & Freddie
MARIA: Sooooo how did you meet? It’s a question that every couple will be asked sooner or later, and damn, some people have a really good story. Think love at first sight doesn’t exist? Dating apps are just for casual hook-ups? No one really meets their life partner when they help pick up their spilled shopping? Think again. This series is a celebration of true love stories, told by the couples themselves. I’m Maria Passingham, this is Equal Parts.
SARAH: I was so nervous, I was so nervous.
FREDDIE: He came right up to me and rested his massive fist, it was like a bear’s paw, on my nose.
SARAH: Oh my god, what have I just said?
MARIA: Our first tale is a classic: a good, old-fashioned set-up. There’s snow, there’s trains, there’s a bit of fisty-cuffs: in other words, all the makings of a great rom-com. Here’s Sarah and Freddie, a couple of six years, now living in South London.
SARAH: I’m Sarah, I’m from Manchester, and I work in theatre as an Assistant Stage Manager
FREDDIE: I’m Freddie, my partner is Sarah, otherwise known a Gaz. She doesn’t allow me to call her Sarah, she tells me off if I call her Sarah, so it’s Gaz. I am 26 years old, I live in London, I work at a music label doing a lot of digital online stuff that the older people don’t think they can do.
SARAH: We met on the 25th January, and we like to call that whole week up until the 1st February our anniversary week, because our first date was on the 1st February which was exactly a week after we first met.
So I first met Freddie, so my friend, my best friend, showed me pictures of him. So she’d met him before I had. The first thing that I saw when I saw pictures of him was his fashion… or his, oh no his hair actually. I just liked his face. Tall, dark, and handsome. Yeah there’s this one picture which was his profile picture at the time and he’s wearing like a white jacket, and he’s standing on a roof, trying to look cool. And I thought he does look cool.
So we sat there and stalked him on Facebook quite regularly for about two weeks, up until she said, why don’t you come to Sheffield and meet him? And so I literally did get on a train to meet this guy.
And I was in, her boyfriend at the time, I was in his room getting ready to go out, and suddenly Freddie appeared at the doorway.
So I just remember him and the clothes that he was wearing, and his hair, and being introduced as Gaz and Vivian… that’s a whole other story. And that was it, and I just, I just knew, that that was it.
FREDDIE: When I first met her, I was at a period of my life where I was looking for romance all the time, like quite a lot. And then one of her friends set me up. But I was so adamantly trying to do it on my own, that as soon as I saw her I was like, “oh hello, y’alright”, and then carried on walking essentially, I definitely just tried to blank her out of my mind because I was still so focussed on just trying to find love on my own, because I thought that was the way you had to do it...pft, silly. [Laughs] I was rubbish at it, I was single for two years but looking the whole time, so I dunno…
SARAH: So it started off at my best friend’s boyfriend’s house, in Sheffield. And also in this house is another friend of Freddie’s from school… they just all sort of followed each other to Sheffield. So it’s a big house party and - Fred will tell you as well that he wasn’t even going to come out, but they convinced him, his friends convinced him to come out - I was so nervous, I was so nervous, and we all went down into the kitchen and there was this living area in the kitchen, and everyone was sitting in a circle, and there were loads of people that I’d never met before.
Fred and I were sitting next to each other I think, but I just couldn’t, I didn’t have the courage to talk to him, erm until eventually, I don’t know what made it happen… it was probably Freddie started talking, and we were talking about radio and how I did the radio at uni and he always said he thought that was really cool, and from then on we just chatted and chatted, and chatted.
FREDDIE: I think the thing that caught me most then is when she started talking to me, and she was just doing loads of cool stuff. Like, she was doing radio, at her university, she was doing some TV and just started talking about loads of other stuff that I wished I was doing, at the time. I was like, ‘wow this girl’s really cool’!
And then, just after we finished talking at the party before we went dancing, we had to walk, this was in Sheffield, we had to walk to the club or the next bar or whatever it was, and er, it was snowing outside. And this is January so it was a pretty good snow, and we had a big snowball fight, and she had her big winter coat on and these little purple - I think purple plimsolls or something - on, and threw a particularly good snowball at her. Obviously I was aiming at her most than anyone else, because I already completely fancied her.
SARAH: It was really really heavy snow, and I had these really flimsy shoes on that I’d just bought, cos I didn’t even have anything to wear. So I turned up in Sheffield and had to go to Topshop, and I bought this dress that didn’t really fit me,it was too tight, and some really flimsy shoes that I don’t have… I think I probably got rid of them on the night… and then so we walked all the way down from the house into town and he was throwing snowballs at me [laughs] and I like, lost my shoe in the middle of the road as well at one point… and then eventually we ended up in this pub - I think it’s called The Cavendish.
FREDDIE: My friends were there, and her best friend from home was there. And she was the one that set the two of us up, and er, yeah I just found her absolutely amazing, and I knew actually as soon as I met her at the party beforehand that, er, I really wanted her to be my girlfriend. And I hadn’t had that before. I’d met girls that I thought were cool. ‘Ooh this person really likes this part of a film’, and I thought that was what romance was but it wasn’t really. It didn’t do anything. And then I met Gaz, and er, I don’t know, just, it was what I wanted.
FREDDIE: So we then went to another bar -
SARAH: A place called West Street Live in Sheffield. It’s more of like a Motown-y vibe, soul vibe.
FREDDIE: This is the fun, upbeat, kind of soul, nightclub I guess. Kind of soul and funk, a bit Craig Charles 6 Music kind of stuff. And we were dancing there, and then er we shared our first kiss on the dancefloor.
SARAH: We had our first kiss there, and erm and then got a taxi home?
FREDDIE: I remember, she was giving me her phone number, and she took my phone and put it in, and then the next morning, ‘cause we were all staying in our friend’s house -
SARAH: I had to leave, early-ish, and so as I was leaving Fred asked me if he could come and see me in Manchester….but I was like, no I’m not going to be in Manchester, and he got really confused and thought that I went to uni in Manchester and was from Oxford, and he was convinced that that was what it was, and so I had to be like “no, I’m going back to Oxford to go to uni”, ‘cause it was in the Christmas holidays still, and, so I remember leaving the house, and him asking if he could come and see me, and I said yeah.
FREDDIE: I said, “ah I’ll call you and we’ll arrange something in Manchester”, so, she said yeah great, and we hugged and she went off. And then about five minutes later I went through my phone to find her number, just to check it was still there… I couldn’t find it!
SARAH: I think for ages he was searching for Sarah, and it wasn’t coming up, and then realised ‘oh I need to put in Gaz’, and then I think it took about three days for me to hear from him, and I remembered saying to my friends from home like “oh yeah like I met this guy, but, I’ve not heard from him yet so I don’t know but, you know I don’t want to get my hopes up but erm, but yeah” and then um, eventually I heard- and I think he thinks that three days was quite a cool amount of time to leave it.
FREDDIE: So up until this point, I’d never actually… if I met someone that I was sort of interested in, I would never - it wasn’t had the courage, but I never was really bothered about contacting them much afterwards because, I don’t know, after meeting someone new, it would be kind of fun at first, and then you might send a text, and I always found that, and then I got bored.
But then with Gaz it was different. I wanted to speak to her, so after three days - which was an accidental three days wait - I just was going out to various gigs or something with friends, I don’t think I wanted to ring her up too hungover, so I rang, actually rang her up, it was the first time I’d ever done that with a girl, and I was so nervous, so nervous. Like just pressing the buttons and press the call was difficult, and then I rang her up, and er we organised going er on a date on the weekend, the following weekend after we first met. In Manchester, so we met in Sheffield, and then arranged a date in Manchester.
SARAH: I’d just finished, I was doing some work experience at a radio station in Manchester, and so he came, he got the train about 1 o’clock.
FREDDIE: I listened to one of my favourite albums to try and chill myself out - er Nicolas Jaar’s Space Is Only Noise - which isn’t particularly a relaxing album, actually now I think about it, it’s pretty weird. But I don’t know, I was just listening to it a lot at the time, and er, I hoped it would calm me down. Which it kind of did, kind of did, but I knew it was still such a momentous occasion that I was still, my heart was actually pounding for the whole journey.
SARAH: I remember we walked down to Castlefield in Manchester, and went to Duke’s 92 and had pizza. And I remember talking - I was so nervous - and I remember we talked about driving, that was the only part of conversation that I remember, passing our driving tests or something.
FREDDIE: It was good, it was sort of flowing, but it wasn’t relaxed as it might be if you were sitting down with your friends, and it was a little bit obvious.
SARAH: And he always says that he did a really good thing to break the ice, and he sent me up the stairs to the toilet - because I needed the toilet - and he said “oh yeah, they’re just up this way” -
FREDDIE: Purposely pointed her in the wrong direction, and she walked into a business meeting [laughs] full of suited men [laughs]. And then came back down really embarrassed, but in a kind of happy way. And that sort of broke the ice.
SARAH: It did break the ice to be fair, because from then on it was a lot easier. We shared a lot that I wouldn’t of usually thought you would have shared on a first date, but it just did feel natural.
FREDDIE: We went to see this free stand-up comedy at the main theatre there, The Royal Exchange.
SARAH: Which I loved, because that’s always been one of my favourite buildings in Manchester.
FREDDIE: Which was really bad [laughs].
SARAH: Then we went to an oyster bar in Manchester, and Fred says he nearly got stabbed.
FREDDIE: It was really, really rammed. Packed full of people, it was obviously a popping bar. And we managed to find a perch on a windowsill in one of the rooms, it was quite a small room, and there were just a bunch of locals sitting around and er they couldn’t understand my southern accent, and I couldn’t understand their Mancunian accent. But we still took a shining to them, and they ended up inviting us to just sit in their circle, so we did. We got a better seat on the sofa. And Gaz started talking to this guy next to her - I can’t remember his name, but he had a tattoo of his daughter? Tattooed on his arm, the name of his daughter on his arm.
SARAH: I was too busy chatting to a man called Carl, about his daughter that he had tattooed on his wrist that he hadn’t seen in years, so I missed this whole stabbing episode.
FREDDIE: So I was talking to the rest of the group, because Gaz was wrapped up in this story, and then this one guy who, who was really drunk in the corner and was only half really following what was going on, and beforehand, he had shown us these er scars, on his back, which he said were stab wounds. And he was a big bloke, so it was pretty intimidating, and er this guy’s daughter was sitting on the other end of the table, and I think she asked me a few questions about what I was doing with Gaz, and where we were thinking of going, you know like, whether we were enjoying Manchester, and then this guys gets angry because he thinks I’m hitting on his daughter. I’m like “nah, nah nah nah, I’m on a date with this girl, I know she’s not talking to me right now, but I’m on a date with this girl here”.
He sort of like, staggeringly wavered at me, and then he was like - and Gaz had no idea this was going on, she was busily chatting to this guy who hadn’t seen his daughter in years - and er he came right up to me and rested his massive fist, it was like a bear’s paw, on my nose, like rest- and I thought he was joking, he was obviously very confused… and then the rest of the friends all get up at that point, and realise it was all getting a bit lardy, so they take him outside.
And then I go [whispering] “Gaz, Gaz, Gaz, Gaz” and I get her attention and I was like “we have to go, right now”, so I basically drag her out, I was like ‘wow, great introduction to Manchester!’ So that was our first date and then er -
SARAH: We had to run for the train, because we both had to get the last train back. And this was the other thing, was that I was, he kept on asking me what time I needed to leave and what time I needed to go home, and I was really scared and I didn’t want to like - so I just said oh 6 o’clock. And I think I said that I had to look after my sister or something, who’s only like two years younger than me [laughs], and then somehow I forgot about that and I stayed until, yeah half eleven [laughs].
I remember being in the foyer at Manchester Piccadilly-
FREDDIE: In the main hustle and bustle of the station we had a little
FREDDIE & SARAH TOGETHER: We had a kiss
FREDDIE: I guess our second kiss
SARAH: [cringe laughing] and...oh it’s so awful [laughs], so we were saying bye and then, um, I said “I love you” and... I didn’t think he heard it because he didn’t react, but I was like, ‘oh my god what have I just said?’ thinking I - I just meant it as if I were saying goodbye to a friend. But it happened just after we kissed so it was just awful.
FREDDIE: [laughs] It’s the kind of thing that would definitely have freaked me out back then, massively. So I just very quickly, subconsciously pretended I hadn’t heard it because she said it so quietly.
SARAH: Oh my gosh. And then we both went our separate ways. And he had to go to one platform and I went to the other, but it ended up that my train was sitting on the platform for ages, and Fred was also waiting for his train, so I ended up seeing him, on the platform, whilst on this train, just waiting for it to move, and I’d just told him that I loved him! [laughs] After a week of knowing him, and two weeks of stalking him on Facebook, so you know… bit creepy.
That took a few months for that to come out and for me to learn that he did hear me… and he just had to push it out of his brain because he was a bit freaked out by it. He definitely like talked to his friends about it, erm, I hope he just knew that I was just nervous and just said it. Quite funny.
FREDDIE: I forgot about it until, I think two months later, when her best friend - Emma, Emma’s boyfriend - Josh, asked me if I’d heard anything, heard Gaz say anything at the end of the date, and then I was like “oh my god she said I love you at the end of the first date… she didn’t think that really, did she? That’s crazy” and I freaked out for a little bit and then I was like ‘nah she can’t have meant that, it must have just been an accident’.
But it was funny, because I think after six months of our relationship, I brought it up again, being like, “oh yeah at least I didn’t say I love you on the first date” and she cringed pretty hard.
SARAH: That’s a great story, I love that one.
SARAH: I always remember thinking that, like, ‘oh he’s really carefree’ which was something that I was never, so that was really nice, because I went on loads of adventures with him.
FREDDIE: I think, the two of us together, just er, I don’t know, we clicked in certain ways that made everything very easy to do. The fact that Gaz was at university at Oxford Brookes, and I was in Sheffield, was really easy. Even though we got - we saw each other every couple of weeks, or maybe longer. That was alright because, I don’t know, we had found the right thing and it was really nice. And we didn’t really ever argue - we don’t really argue now either.
I’m still finding things out about her, that still amaze me, like some small things, some, I don’t know, big things as she changes and moves on with her life and works out what she wants to do with her career and, yeah I’d say it’s still really easy between the two of us.
SARAH: He’s just, kind. And I think a lot of people would probably say that… and funny. They’re kind of clichés but it’s true.
MARIA: Equal Parts is produced by me, Maria Passingham. Thanks to Audio Network for the music, and to Sarah and Freddie for sharing their story.
Each episode of Equal Parts has an accompanying piece of original artwork, produced by some of my favourite artists, designers, and illustrators. This week’s image was created by the wonderful Fran Marchesi of lettersandshapes, who also designed our logo. You can see her creation and find links to more of her work at equalpartspodcast.co.uk
Next week, a story spanning decades and the length of the country.
DUNCAN: It was Anna’s 30th and she was throwing a party in Newcastle, so my best friend, he got the invite.
ANNA: And so Jamie, said to me, “oh Dunc Brown’s coming as well” and [laughs] I was like “ohhh, great, lovely”, thinking ‘I always fancied him’.